StuffHTF scenarios, long post

This is a place you can feel free to talk about just about any thing you want. As long as it is family-rated of course.

StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby thx997303 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 12:44 am

This is the essay I wrote over on XD talk, and thought I would share it over here. If I am off base on anything, correct me please.

I would like the input of others here. But not on grammar or spelling. I'm not publishing a book here :D
Keep the calibers to a minimum. I would say .40 or 9mm because they are so dang plentiful.

As far as rifles, keep a rifle chambered in 5.56, or 7.62x39

I say 5.56 because the 5.56 NATO round has higher case pressures than the .223, and you can use the .223 in a rifle chambered for 5.56 but not the other way around.

The handgun is for last resort, the rifle in 5.56 or 7.62x39 for two legged critters.

In addition, I would say have a bolt action rifle in a commonly found round, such as the 7.62x51 NATO or the .30-06 for larger game, or long range shots.

I would also keep a 12 GA shotgun for hunting birds, and a .22 for other small animals.

Your main food source is not going to be deer. Some people think so, but unless you live in a very rural area, there will not be enough deer to feed everyone, and will be very quickly hunted out.

The reality is you may be eating Rover. Not to mention, in the summer, if you kill a large animal such as a deer, you are not going to be able to eat all of the meat before it rots. Therefore, teamwork will probably be the best way to go.

No way you should be trying to go on your own here. You should be teaming up with your community.

I figure the best way would be to breed cats and rabbits for food. They both breed like crazy, can eat very easily found foods, and don't need huge pieces of land, or large amounts of water to thrive.

Now, for the long haul, maybe a blackpowder flintlock may be the best for hunting. You can make your own black powder, you can cast your own bullets, you can find flint and steel, and you can mine the lead, and in that sort of situation, you can even use car batteries for a lead source.

I do not recomend doing this normally, it is dangerous.

If the hospital ends up in ruins, go dismantle the x-ray room, you'll never need any more lead.

Hmm, what else, Oh! If you live where water is scarce, collect rainwater, and dew. All you need to do is boil the water, and you're good.

And always keep extra. Soap is easily made from various things, one of the main ingredients being animal fat, which you will have from your meat source. Save all the fat.

Soap will be important, remember that disease was a huge problem before we figured out we needed to keep clean, and sponge baths will be the way to go, not filling up the dang tub!

you can easily heat the water in the summer, by just leaving the water you need heated in a steel or glass container in the sun all day.

Learn to use flint and steel to make a fire. Char cloth will be needed, but it's pretty easy to make once you have a fire going. All you would need is a fire, an altoids tin or something like that, and cotton cloth.

Put a hole in the top of the can, put the cloth in the can, and put the can in the fire, the can will smoke, and when it's done, you have char cloth.

Eh, It's a very good idea to make planter boxes, you can make them wherever you are, using railroad ties or the like, and you can put whatever soil you need in them. This way, you can grow a wider variety of food, since many need slightly different soil to grow. It's also easier to keep weeds out of them.

Now for shelter, if you are settling down in an area for a while, try to make your house with adobe. It's easy enough to make, and it is a very good insulator. Keeps cooler in the summer, and warmer in the winter.

Wood doesn't insulate well. Always keep a fire vent, and a place you can make a fire. If you can, making shelters out of animal pelts will be a good mobile way to keep warm in the winter. The indians knew what they were doing.

In all honesty, don't expect to have any creature comforts. Some expect to have access to gasoline for their generators. Not probable, more probable is that the entire [auto-filtered] scenario will be caused by $20 a gallon gas prices.

Leave all electronic devices back, unless you have some nice batteries.

The rabbits I mentioned earlier, can also make for some great cold weather clothing, but you should raise something like cotton tails instead of jacks, and either way, you should use the summer pelts for summer garb, and the winter pelts for winter garb. The winter pelts will have thicker hollow hairs, and will therefore keep you warmer. Many should be turned into rawhide, will come in very handy for making your clothing. By the way, cook them well, parasites suck.

Talk to some trappers to figure out how to tan a hide. I would say talk to taxidermists, but unless they do it the old way, some like to use chemicals.

Keep some good quality boots on hand. The military uses some really good boots, so take a look at those. They aren't that expensive really, and really durable. But the biggest thing is that they're waterproof.

Wool clothes are going to be the best to have around in the cold. And long sleeve shirts year round. Look at Iraq, and all of those other middle eastern countries. They don't cover themselves like that because it's comfortable.
It keeps the sun off of them. Learn to wrap your face against the sun.
Don't think you are going to rely on sunscreen.

Excercise, get out into the country and hike. Trust me, you don't want to have your first heart attack because you hiked further than you were used to. Especially in a [auto-filtered] scenario.

Remember, your initial stockpiling is only going to last you so long. If the scenario lasts longer than your stockpile, then you better learn to adapt.

Now, if you are thinking about preparing for a nuclear attack, well, that's an essay for a different time.

Then you have to think about a shelter from the initial blast, as well as the radiation, and the fallout. You get into protection factors, and etc. BTW earth is an extremely good protector against nuclear radiation. 3 feet will give you a PF of 1000, which means that it will only allow 1/1000th of the radiation in. IIRC.

You also get into ventilation and such with that.

Anyway, sorry guys, if this was more in depth than the OP was intending, then Oh well, I felt like writing an essay.
__________________
User avatar
thx997303
Sniper
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue 17 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby thx997303 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 1:14 am

D'oh! Forgot to mention keeping spare parts for your weapons.

Oh, and basic first aid supplies and training.
Last edited by thx997303 on Fri 08 Aug 2008 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
thx997303
Sniper
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue 17 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby ProtectedBy9mm » Fri 08 Aug 2008 1:15 am

Nice write-up. :type:

Water is key. You can hunt all the potguts you want, just hold near a water source. :thumbsup: and ammo...
Attachments
hooah.jpg
Did you say .223????
hooah.jpg (185.72 KiB) Viewed 901 times
------------------------------
1911 .45 ACP
Glock 19 (x2)
Remington 870
User avatar
ProtectedBy9mm
Marksman
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed 23 Jul 2008 3:11 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby thx997303 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 1:17 am

I need to really write something up, more final than this.

My FIL knows of a way to make a natural swamp cooler, which would be great info to have, I need to figure that one out and post it.

I would like to add, that the following things would provide one person with 2100 calories for three days, while providing essential nutrients.
1/2 lb canned tuna fish, or pork and beans
1/2 lb nonfat dry milk
1 lb graham crackers
1 lb dried apricots
46 oz canned orange or tomato juice
1/2 lb peanut butter

Not gut filling, but life sustaining. Add a lot of water to that though.

Another note, trapping may actually be a more effective way to gather meat, over hunting. You also aren't using any of your ammo supply by doing this.

Also, if you have a baby, that was feeding on formula, you can make an emergency formula by adding 1/3rd cup plus 2 teaspoons nonfat milk powder, to 1 and 1/3 cup water, mixing thoroughly, then add one tablespoon of vegetable oil, and 2 teaspoons of sugar. Mix well and feed to baby three times a day.

I would also like to add, if using rabbits as a food source, the head should be removed before cleaning it, to allow to properly bleed, and the hide should Not be salted.

Meat can be preserved by making it into jerky. Not the jerky we buy in a store of course. The meat should be cut into thin strips, then either dried in the sun, or over a low fire. Keep bugs off of the meat. Store in bug proof containers. Then it can be boiled in stews, or cooked. Mold can merely be cleaned off.

Pemmican is also a good way to store meat. Pemmican is a mixture of dried meat, dried berries, and suet. Suet being the hard fat around the kidneys and loins of larger animals. The jerky is pounded. The berries are smashed or pounded and dried. Then you mix the Jerky and the berries in melted Suet. The mixture can be stored in lumps or balls, in a secure container(indians would use the cleaned out intestines of larger animals) in a cool dry place. If stored right, pemmican will keep for months.

To use a hide, first soak the hide in water for a full day. Then stake the hide out on the ground, pegging it around the outside. Then scrape all fat and flesh from the hide. If you can't find a blade, or edge, a leg bone from the animal can be ground to an edge sufficient for this operation.

Remember that the hollow hairs of some animals may not set in the skin, and will shed during use. If you want to remove the hairs, it can be done the same as the fleshing stage mentioned above. This requires additional soaking though, and smaller animals such as rabbits can be tanned with the hair remaining, making them great hides for winter clothing.

The skin can then be tanned using the brain of the animal. You can preserve the brain for a few days by lightly cooking it, and storing it in the cleaned intestines of the animal.

When you tan the hide, lightly cook the brain, then mash it into a paste, and spread it over the hide. Put it on the smooth side if you are going to leave the hair on. If you aren't going to leave the hair one, put it on both sides. The brain should be large enough to tan the hid of the animal it came from.

After spreading the brain matter over the hide, if the hair is left off, roll it up and let it sit for 12 to 18 hours. If the hair is left one, fold it in with the smooth side in, and the hair out, then roll the hide, and let sit.

After it has sat, unroll the hide, stake it out, and scrape off the brain matter. Then work the hide back and forth over a smooth, narrow, rounded surface.
You can also smoke the hide over a smoky fire, which will soften the leather, and make it more pliable when made wet and redries.

Now to make rawhide, soak and scrape the hide as described above, remove the hair, and apply urine to the hide(I know I know, this is a survival situation though) let it soak in, then scrape any excess fat off(the urine helps remove the fat. so yes, save urine) then rinse the hide with water. Then allow the hide to dry staked to the ground, until it is stiff. Rawhide is useful in making ropes, and the soles for moccasins. If you make the rawhide into rope, cut it in a spiral pattern from the outside perimeter in. This will waste less, and make for a long continuous piece of rawhide.
Last edited by thx997303 on Fri 08 Aug 2008 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
thx997303
Sniper
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue 17 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby thx997303 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 2:02 am

You didn't make that pic just for me now did yoU? Hooah! is right!

Another tid-bit, you can recover an oil from sheep and deer hooves, by crushing and boiling them. The oil will rise to the top and can be scraped off.

You can then use the oil to waterproof, and preserve leather. Also, the solution underneath the oil, can be boiled down until thick, and then used as a good general purpose glue.

Now, on soap, the easiest soap to make is soft soap.

You will need animal fat, lye, and water. The fat should be saved from any meat you eat. Melt the fat, the strain it through a screen.

Lye can be taken from wood ash, which should be available. Fill a bucket with the ashes( the lighter color the ashes the better) then add boiling water, filling to near the top, then stir the ashes, and add more ashes to fill the bucket, then stir again. Then let the mixture sit until the sediment has settled and the liquid is clear. Then decant the liquid. This liquid can now be used in making soap. You can boil the liquid to thicken it up. The long held belief is if a raw egg will float on it, then it's about the right strength. DISCLAIMER: LYE IS DANGEROUS, KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN, AND WEAR PROPER SAFETY GEAR WHEN HANDLING. KEEP WATER NEARBY TO FLUSH OUT ANY AREA LYE COMES IN CONTACT WITH.

To make soft soap, for laundry, dishes, and etc, NOT HAND SOAP. stir 2 quarts melted grease(fat) into 2 quarts lukewarm water in a bucket. Then add 13 ounces, (about a can for soup) lye to the mixture, and if available, one half cup of borax (optional, makes it not smell bad, and makes for a better laundry detergent) Mix well with a wooden instrument, then stir every fifteen minutes for one hour. Then, add one and one half quarts water, and continue stirring every half hour for about 2 hours. Then let stand over night. If the mixture is too thick, add water and stir. It is ready to use when white. Cover the container to keep soft, adding water as needed, or allow to dry, and grate into a powder.

For hand soap, add salt and water to the FINISHED SOFT SOAP,THAT DID NOT HAVE BORAX ADDED TO IT, then boil it down. Remove the soap from the top of the kettle as it cools, and pour into molds. Usually wood, Never aluminum. A thin coating of plastic can be placed over the mold to prevent the soap from sticking in the mold. Cover the molds with several layers of newspaper, or an old rug to hold heat in, and let harden for a few days. Remove the bars from the molds, KEEPING IN MIND THAT LYE MAY HAVE SEPERATED FROM THE SOAP, SO DO IT OVER A CONTAINER, AND WEAR SAFETY GEAR. If the molds were too large, then cut the soap down into the desired size, and let the bars cure for a few weeks. This causes the soap to be less caustic, and therefore more pleasant to use.

While making the soap, keep in mind that you may add flower petals or pine needles to the soap, then removing them to add fragrance. And glycerine can be added to the soap to make it more pleasant to use.
Last edited by thx997303 on Fri 08 Aug 2008 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
thx997303
Sniper
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue 17 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby Ty » Fri 08 Aug 2008 2:09 am

I'm working on getting some land in Wyoming, least populous state in the union, and living off the grid eventually and being as self sufficient as I can. 40 acre lots are my starting point. No more utilities or buying 100% of my food. So this is something I think about and plan for a lot since I'm going to live in this kind of way with or with out a disaster.

There's a few things you missed that I would like to have, they go above the BUG bag cause they are to heavy and not practical to haul around but fit well with the self-sufficient community. Like tools, you should have a good supply of hand tools that replace the electric ones you use now like the old hand drills and saws. Also, gardening tools, the rototiller you have wont be top priority when gas is in shortage.

You need to already have seeds for any crops you want to grow. I'm working right now learning about different herbs. You can get the seeds to grow poppies for making opiate mixing it with alcohol and make laudanum for pain killers and help with sleeping. Mentholatum mint is the main ingredient for Vick's and grows like a weed. There are a lot of other herbs and flowers that can be used to boost the immune system, help with healing, ease pain, flavor and spice food, and make medicine by making teas, plasters, and supplements. Many of these can be found in the wild but you can't count on it.

Yeasts would be good to have for making alcohol and bread.

Hmm what else. You covered soap but there is also cleaning clothes and sanitation that needs to be covered. Again old fashioned washboards and wringers will help with that especially if you have a baby and have cloth diapers to clean. Out houses and septic tanks will take over indoor plumbing most likely and they will need to be planned for.

Another good animal to have is goats. They can be eaten, milked and are hardy foragers. You can make cheese, butter and yogurt, if you have the bacteria, by hand very simply. And Honey bee's can be kept for pollination, the honey can replace sugar and the wax used to make candles.

Lot's to think about really. And I'm sure we are missing a lot still.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
User avatar
Ty
Marksman
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2008 2:57 am
Location: Orem

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby thx997303 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 2:38 am

Yeah, I'm sure we're still missing a lot, but man keep the stuff coming.

I want this to be a good source of information for people.

I just reread this thing, and it's a solid wall of information. :D

Oh, Dentist's offices are also a good source of lead, as I found out yesterday.
User avatar
thx997303
Sniper
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue 17 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby thx997303 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 2:55 am

Oh, and the beeswax TY mentioned can also come in handy for fluxing your lead when casting bullets.
User avatar
thx997303
Sniper
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue 17 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby Paul » Fri 08 Aug 2008 6:48 am

I think this was the most important thing to take out of the first post:

"No way you should be trying to go on your own here. You should be teaming up with your community."

My plan would be to form a nice little compound with 5-10 families. HOWEVER, you are not joining the compound unless you have something to offer! The larger the group the higher the security IMO. However, if a large group thinks they are going to live off of my year's supply of food, etc. they are sadly mistaken. If you can circle the wagons with 5-10 families that have a year's supply of food, etc. you should be fine. The compound could be a home, a business, just a building that allows you to provide good security.

The other thing I didn't see mentioned is a good water filter. I have a few nice small backpacking water filters that will be CRITICAL during a crisis. Remember water is going to be way more important than food. IMO water will be the most critical thing to worry about.
-Paul
http://www.myfavoritegunstore.com
http://www.cachevalleycountertops.com
NRA Life Member
Utah CFP Instructor
Utah Hunters Education Instructor
NRA Rifle and Pistol Instructor and RSO
Front Sight Ambassador (ask me about memberships)
User avatar
Paul
Forum Owner
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2007 6:09 am
Location: Richmond, UT

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby MarshallDodge » Fri 08 Aug 2008 7:41 am

Top five things you need in a scenario:
Drinking Water
Food and medical supplies
Heat in the winter
Gun and ammo to protect yourself
Community- Some of these scenarios seem to create a "bug out" scenario where you are on your own. I am with PW, you will die on your own.

If stuff did hit the fan I think we need to work with what is left of the leadership in this country to get it back on it's feet. If we don't, there will be another country that will be taking us over. :(
Kirk
-Seconds count, misses don't-
"The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." John Steinbeck
User avatar
MarshallDodge
Sniper
 
Posts: 2620
Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 5:16 pm
Location: Weber County

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby scott.pete06 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 7:53 am

I'm not l.d.s. but my family is. My mom is convinced that in a stuffhtf scenario that the stake president will bring people to the church and use that as a living place, using the members years supplies to support one another. I think thats crazy for 3 main reasons.
1. not everyone has a year supply.
2. you cant keep that many people in one building that long.
3. people like me would get homicidal when people didn't bring anything to the table, and just expected the church to take care of them.
I agree that groups are the best way to survive, but small groups, not massive groups. There is a reason I have a hand full of cheap guns, I can pass them out to the right people when the time comes. (eyes shifting over shoulder)
Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. -Robert E. Lee
scott.pete06
Expert Marksman
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue 24 Jun 2008 7:53 am

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby Cinhil » Fri 08 Aug 2008 10:20 am

scott.pete06 wrote:I agree that groups are the best way to survive, but small groups, not massive groups. There is a reason I have a hand full of cheap guns, I can pass them out to the right people when the time comes. (eyes shifting over shoulder)


That's when it is nice to have a large family. You can be your own group and know whom to trust, or who will work and pay their keep. You know who won't rob or kill for what you have. Personally, with 5 brothers and three sisters and their families I am sure we could make a couple of good groups for protection/security. I think it is important we are all at least somewhat prepared for this type of scenario that's why I have worked with my wife over the last year to prepare us in case anything happens.
Another thing; don't forget trade items such as knives, cloth, thread, even ammo. Just be very cautious about whom you would trade with and for what. I am sure I am forgetting something---o--keep some cash or silver or gold on hand too, these are always good for getting what you haven't been able to produce, or can't make on your own. I am sure I am still forgetting something but am at work and will need to think further on this before responding again/
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes' ("Who watches the watchmen?”)."
User avatar
Cinhil
Sniper
 
Posts: 2960
Joined: Fri 24 Jun 2005 1:31 am

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby ian husford » Fri 08 Aug 2008 10:44 am

This has been all wonderful information for when we get Jericho'ed. I am wondering about something. Has anyone mentioned having radios available? Not only the little two-way radios that claim 20-mile range but what about a shortwave? Or even something like a police scanner that can receive a lot of communication frequencies? I have a hand-crank receiver that does AM, FM, and shortwave and also a scanner that does 25MHz to 1300 MHz. I also have two of those family transceivers but I think I need a couple of better ones.

ian
The First and Second Amendments are so intertwined that that we can not have one without the other. And if there comes a time when we lose both, the United States will cease as we know it.
User avatar
ian husford
Sniper
 
Posts: 1097
Joined: Fri 30 Nov 2007 10:18 am
Location: East Mill Creek, Utah

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby Ruger Collector » Fri 08 Aug 2008 10:55 am

Lots of NiMH batteries and a few solar chargers should be in everybody's supply too.


Edit: An easy AA solar charger to find will be those little yard light things. Just remove the LED so they won't drain the batteries too.
Last edited by Ruger Collector on Fri 08 Aug 2008 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
If we fail to accomplish firearm safety by education, we increase the risk of draconian legislation.

NRA Life Member/RSO/Pistol, Rifle, Personal Protection & Ut-CFP Instructor.
Recommended reading: Utah Gun Law
User avatar
Ruger Collector
Sniper
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Fri 09 Jul 2004 10:03 pm
Location: SL Valley

Re: StuffHTF scenarios, long post

Postby scott.pete06 » Fri 08 Aug 2008 10:59 am

ian husford wrote:This has been all wonderful information for when we get Jericho'ed. I am wondering about something. Has anyone mentioned having radios available? Not only the little two-way radios that claim 20-mile range but what about a shortwave? Or even something like a police scanner that can receive a lot of communication frequencies? I have a hand-crank receiver that does AM, FM, and shortwave and also a scanner that does 25MHz to 1300 MHz. I also have two of those family transceivers but I think I need a couple of better ones.

ian

In our storage all my family keeps cb radio's they work fairly well.
Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. -Robert E. Lee
scott.pete06
Expert Marksman
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue 24 Jun 2008 7:53 am

Next

Return to Chit Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests