H.B. 178 Bureau of Criminal Identification Fee Amendment

[pedman]

Folks,

Watch this closely - this is a bill that we will want to kill, see link for reading, but basically this will increase BCI fees and will allow the BCI to increase fees in the future without Legislation approval.

It is being drafted at this time by Republican E.Hutchings of District 38, ehutchings@utah.gov

See Link for draft version: http://le.utah.gov/~2010/htmdoc/hbillhtm/hb0178.htm

[hyrax]

Having looked at this bill, I don't have any objections to it. BCI is a self supporting entity of the DPS and has been a great service all around. They have some upcoming projects that need to be dealt with and this is a way of funding them without direct taxpayer dollars. It may not be the bomb for others, but I can support this bill as it reads.

[ArmedAffliction]

[pedman]

Let me ask you this, why pay in the first place your 2nd Amendment allows your right and the BCI current has a plenty of funds in place that folks like myself have already contributed. The second part is allowing the BCI the ability to raise the rates at any given time in the future without legislation approval, sign me up I can manage this department now:) I know for myself that less is better, but this opens the doors to other potentially dangerous actions. I am for one like the Alaska position, no fees period, no permit required and I hope that Utah will follow suit in the future, but I also know that this is a crawl, walk, run process. Truth be told, this process would prohibit law abiding Utah citizens from their rights in the future.

Keep in mind that the purpose of the "Brady check" is to detect PROHIBITED persons attempting to illegally buy guns. The FBI will do the background check WITHOUT ANY FEE, this is where the BCI gets its information. If BCI cannot provide the service for the present fee, then maybe we should just eliminate the "state point of contact" and let the FBI do it for free. (borrowed comment)

I would love to hear what the NRA's position would be on this and I am almost certain what the response would be.

Thanks for the dialogue, I would like to hear all replies, thoughts and comments...

[hyrax]

Understand that BCI does far more than just "OK" your permit. They regulate and teach the CCW instructors classes, regulate the Bail Enforcement industry, handle expungements, employment and housing background checks, fingerprints, pics, and the computer information systems and training for all the Police Departments for the entire State. You know, the one they use when they run your plate or pull you over. They also handle the Amber alerts, Private Investigators, and they house all the relating over site boards for these things.
Besides, every meeting I go to there, they always have water/ coffee and donuts for us. Not the day old stuff either, the good kind.

[pedman]

I agree - and they still have plenty of money in the Bank.

[RustyShackleford]

I believe in a "pay to play" system in (just about) all things.

If they are using money taken from our permit fees to fund other things not directly related to running my CFP aplication..I should not be charged for it. If they need more money for CFP instructor related programs, let them increase the fees to the instructors, I should not have to pay for one of their (CFP instructors) cost of doing business (they can pass that on to their students). Teachers should pay the full amount for their background checks...same with LEOs...etc. It's called Capitalism not Socialism.

actually the permit should be done away with altogether....But then who would fund the fresh donuts?

[Jeff Johnson]

Understand that BCI does far more than just "OK" your permit. They regulate and teach the CCW instructors classes, regulate the Bail Enforcement industry, handle expungements, employment and housing background checks, fingerprints, pics, and the computer information systems and training for all the Police Departments for the entire State. You know, the one they use when they run your plate or pull you over. They also handle the Amber alerts, Private Investigators, and they house all the relating over site boards for these things.
Besides, every meeting I go to there, they always have water/ coffee and donuts for us. Not the day old stuff either, the good kind.

Why should those seeking to be able to legally defend themselves by getting a permit to carry foot the bill for other projects at BCI? That's essentially a targeted tax on the right to self-defense.

I oppose this bill.

[JoeSparky]

I think one would be INSANE to give ANY bureaucrat the freedom to raise fees charged to citizens and NOT HAVE SOME LIMITING CONTROLS in place. If this passes we will get just what we deserve..... an over-funded, bloated, inefficient, ineffective bureaucracy in an out of control BIG GOVERNMENT!

[GreenStreet]

Understand that BCI does far more than just "OK" your permit. They regulate and teach the CCW instructors classes, regulate the Bail Enforcement industry, handle expungements, employment and housing background checks, fingerprints, pics, and the computer information systems and training for all the Police Departments for the entire State. You know, the one they use when they run your plate or pull you over. They also handle the Amber alerts, Private Investigators, and they house all the relating over site boards for these things.
Besides, every meeting I go to there, they always have water/ coffee and donuts for us. Not the day old stuff either, the good kind.

Why should those seeking to be able to legally defend themselves by getting a permit to carry foot the bill for other projects at BCI? That's essentially a targeted tax on the right to self-defense.

I oppose this bill.

I oppose it too. What ever happened to this Bill?

+1

[divegeek]

I oppose it too. What ever happened to this Bill?

According to the link in the first post, it was substituted, then amended to remove the authority of the BCI to increase its service fees, then passed by the House. It's on to the Senate.

[xRapidDavex]

They regulate and teach the CCW instructors classes.

That made me giggle. They're horrible at making sure instructors throughout the state are consistent in their teachings.

[GreenStreet]

They regulate and teach the CCW instructors classes.

That made me giggle. They're horrible at making sure instructors throughout the state are consistent in their teachings.

I have met several people from BCI. I'm not sure they know which side of a firearm faces forward.

I'm sure all the paper pushing around their desks makes them marksmen supreme.

[hyrax]

They have well over 1100 instructors in and out of Utah and really do have a hard time keeping them on task with the curriculum. I do know that they audit where they can, but for the most part they count on feedback from those taking the classes.
I personally think they are too permissive with the instructors and need to throttle it back a bit. Like I mentioned earlier today, I also believe that we should add an annual shooting course to the permit requirement so as to further educate the holders AND be compliant with Nevada's reciprocity agreement again.

[opine1]

Like I mentioned earlier today, I also believe that we should add an annual shooting course to the permit requirement so as to further educate the holders AND be compliant with Nevada's reciprocity agreement again.

i would support a live fire, but not have to qualify at 25 yards like NV. It is a little on the difficult side to qual. with a derringer or NAA mini.