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Not UT related, but SCC V Ohio State University

2K views 6 replies 4 participants last post by  techguy85 
#1 ·
I think I remember a couple folks on here saying they were originally from Ohio when I posted my intro post, so this might be of interest.
the SCC foundation (who's OSU chapter I am the staff adviser for) have filed suit against Ohio State University for violation of our statewide preemption statute.
http://concealedcampus.org/2014/07/stud ... niversity/
 
#2 ·
If you have any way to contact anyone involved in that suit, you could point them to Utah's long experience (I think over a decade now) of specifically not permitting public schools (K-12) or public colleges enact gun bans against any adults who can legally carry a gun. (In Utah, because our State Gun Free School Zone law includes colleges, you have to have a permit to legally carry at any school K-12 or college.) Public schools and public colleges are prohibited from having employment or other policies against the lawful possession of a gun. So adult students, teachers, staff, and legit visitors cannot be punished for the lawful possession of firearms.

In the ten+ years we've had this policy I'm not aware of a single instance of a permit holder committing a crime, having an ND, forgetting his gun, or otherwise causing a problem at any of our public schools (K-12) or public colleges.

One of the great things about 50 States experimenting with different social policies is there is quite often another State that has already tread the same path someone is considering. So there will often be solid examples of policies actually work in the real world.

Charles
 
#3 ·
bagpiper said:
If you have any way to contact anyone involved in that suit, you could point them to Utah's long experience (I think over a decade now) of specifically not permitting public schools (K-12) or public colleges enact gun bans against any adults who can legally carry a gun. (In Utah, because our State Gun Free School Zone law includes colleges, you have to have a permit to legally carry at any school K-12 or college.) Public schools and public colleges are prohibited from having employment or other policies against the lawful possession of a gun. So adult students, teachers, staff, and legit visitors cannot be punished for the lawful possession of firearms.

In the ten+ years we've had this policy I'm not aware of a single instance of a permit holder committing a crime, having an ND, forgetting his gun, or otherwise causing a problem at any of our public schools (K-12) or public colleges.

One of the great things about 50 States experimenting with different social policies is there is quite often another State that has already tread the same path someone is considering. So there will often be solid examples of policies actually work in the real world.

Charles
:thumbsup: What he said :thumbsup:
 
#4 ·
I'm their staff adviser, and one of their lawyers is actually my personal lawyer so yeah I can contact them. We're well aware that UT and CO both have had campus carry for a while without seeming to have blood running in the streets. In fact, when I was on vacation there in Utah I went onto a college campus with my concealed handgun and somehow my gun stayed holstered and no puppies got shot.
Imagine that.
Anyway, we would love for Ohio to eventually adopt Utah style laws. I think it will take a while. We still have lots of crazy off limits locations like government buildings, a blanket ban on houses of worship, non-secure parts of airports, etc.
 
#5 ·
Yep, I'm an Ohio State Alumnus. I used to make many 2am trips to the science library sorta near the main librar to pick up women that didn't feel comfortable walking home (duh) after studying at the computer lab there. I wish you well!

Good luck.
 
#6 ·
techguy85 said:
I'm their staff adviser, and one of their lawyers is actually my personal lawyer so yeah I can contact them. We're well aware that UT and CO both have had campus carry for a while without seeming to have blood running in the streets. In fact, when I was on vacation there in Utah I went onto a college campus with my concealed handgun and somehow my gun stayed holstered and no puppies got shot.
Imagine that.
Anyway, we would love for Ohio to eventually adopt Utah style laws. I think it will take a while. We still have lots of crazy off limits locations like government buildings, a blanket ban on houses of worship, non-secure parts of airports, etc.
Probably shear luck and lack of puppies on campus that prevented the bloodshed while you were here. :D

As for the blanket ban on houses of worship, I think that is actually a violation of freedom of religion. What if a church WANTS to allow guns in their buildings? And as we see in some of the cases of religious groups (the nuns in particular) objecting to various provisions of Obamacare, having to file paperwork just to do as you please can itself be a violation of religious freedom. So a default of banning guns, but allowing churches to allow them might be shaky.

The best bet, constitutionally is for the law not to bans guns at churches at all. For political reasons, there can be benefit to having the caveat that if the church does ban guns, the law will provide some modest (read as minimal as you can get the other side to accept) criminal penalty for a non-violent, technical violation of the policy.

From liberal Vermont, to Conservative Utah, we recognize that "government buildings" are really "the people's buildings" and their rights should be respected therein to the greatest degree possible. Gun bans should be limited to a few, truly high-risk areas like court houses/rooms, and then only if/when real security provides something more than the honor system.

One step at a time, one step at time in the right direction.

Best of luck.

Charles

Charles
 
#7 ·
bagpiper said:
techguy85 said:
I'm their staff adviser, and one of their lawyers is actually my personal lawyer so yeah I can contact them. We're well aware that UT and CO both have had campus carry for a while without seeming to have blood running in the streets. In fact, when I was on vacation there in Utah I went onto a college campus with my concealed handgun and somehow my gun stayed holstered and no puppies got shot.
Imagine that.
Anyway, we would love for Ohio to eventually adopt Utah style laws. I think it will take a while. We still have lots of crazy off limits locations like government buildings, a blanket ban on houses of worship, non-secure parts of airports, etc.
Probably shear luck and lack of puppies on campus that prevented the bloodshed while you were here. :D

As for the blanket ban on houses of worship, I think that is actually a violation of freedom of religion. What if a church WANTS to allow guns in their buildings? And as we see in some of the cases of religious groups (the nuns in particular) objecting to various provisions of Obamacare, having to file paperwork just to do as you please can itself be a violation of religious freedom. So a default of banning guns, but allowing churches to allow them might be shaky.

The best bet, constitutionally is for the law not to bans guns at churches at all. For political reasons, there can be benefit to having the caveat that if the church does ban guns, the law will provide some modest (read as minimal as you can get the other side to accept) criminal penalty for a non-violent, technical violation of the policy.

From liberal Vermont, to Conservative Utah, we recognize that "government buildings" are really "the people's buildings" and their rights should be respected therein to the greatest degree possible. Gun bans should be limited to a few, truly high-risk areas like court houses/rooms, and then only if/when real security provides something more than the honor system.

One step at a time, one step at time in the right direction.

Best of luck.

Charles

Charles
The statute actually does allow churches to allow guns, but the ban is a blanket F4 unless the church posts or permits otherwise. As you can imagine, most churches are hesitant to put permission in writing, and fewer still are posted to generally allow it.
And of course the ban doesn't apply to criminals. We've had a few church shootings (not mass shootings, thankfully,) that have happened in these locations. And the law is not without it's other unintended consequences. In march I was put on the ground at gunpoint by an officer after church let out, I re-armed myself and went to Target to go shopping. Someone saw me holstering my gun and placed a 911 call.
So, there is that...
In any case, we're working hard to move things along here, but we have a long way to go. Having enjoyed my visit to your fine state greatly, if I ever get a good paying job out that way, I'll be seriously tempted to relocate.
 
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