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Petersen's Hunting Article

4K views 13 replies 6 participants last post by  quychang 
#1 ·
I am a big fan of Petersen's Hunting magazine. Been reading it for years now. This past issue (November 2014) has an article where it mentions hunting big game in Africa with the awesome 500 S&W revolver. It's an amazing gun, to be sure. A comment from the writer caught my eye. He said this..."Bullet weights range from 300 grains (1,700 fps) to 500 grains (1,300 fps). This kind of horsepower makes the .500 capable of taking any game on the planet and has been used successfully on Cape Buffalo and elephant."

Now, I am a big ballistics freak....internal AND external. I love playing with bullet sizes and powder charges and seeing how they react and change, depending upon the target, etc.

I was at the range last fall, sighting in my elk rifle and one of the rangemasters thought the load I was using was a little light for elk. I've had several people comment over the years about my choice of cartridge. Sure, it's got a bit of a rainbow trajectory, when compared to the uber-magnums, but it will, hands down, with a good bullet, take any animal on the planet.

So I sent this comment to the magazine and wouldn't you know it? Famous writer Mike Schoby replied. Here's our conversation in toto:

Love the magazine guys! My life would be less without it.

In the November issue of Petersen's Hunting, the article by Kevin Steele called "Performance Center Power" (Guns & Loads), he references the 500 S&W and makes the statement "Bullet weights range from 300 grains (1,700 fps) to 500 grains (1,300 fps). This kind of horsepower makes the .500 capable of taking any game on the planet and has been used successfully on Cape Buffalo and elephant."

Now to the nitty-gritty. <rubs his hands together with an evil grin>

Can we please lay to rest the belief of many hunters that the 45-70 Gov't is "anemic"? I get tired of hearing how my cartridge "may not have enough punch for elk or big-boned animals". Please. If the S&W 500 (at 1,700 fps) is good enough for any animal on the planet, then my 300 grain Nosler Partition or 300 grain Barnes Original/TSX flying at 2,300 fps is downright amazing...even for T-Rex, should the occasion arise. Proof in the pudding would be the 18" diameter quaking aspen tree I center-punched on the elk hunt in Utah 5 years ago. :mrgreen: Uh-oh...now I'm in trouble for shooting a tree.

Thanks!


And here is Mike's reply......

I couldn't agree more. Which is why I bought a Wild West Co-Pilot in .45-70. For the record, I simply bought it, no writer freebie and it is one of my favorite rifles! The .45-70 packs plenty of punch for anything in the world and I wouldn't hesitate to use it on Cape buff with the right bullet (Barnes). That being said, the old tale of the .45-70 being anemic stems from the under powered loads still offered by many manufacturers for safety reasons in weak/obsolete firearms. But as you know, if you handload or buy some of the modern loads specifically for modern, strong action rifles, it is one heck of a game getter.

Thanks for reading,

Mike Schoby

Editor
 
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#4 ·
Darned if that Winchester doesn't bring back memories. I don't have the gun to show a picture, nor was it in the kind of shape yours is, but I hunted my first few years using an 1890's Winchester .44-40 saddle carbine. It was beat to heck, but it was beautiful to me. Belonged to my step grandfather and it went to his family after he passed.

Mel
 
#8 ·
FrankenHollow said:
I won't knock .45-70. It is a very respectable cartridge, and immensely capable.

I, however, prefer the "original" 'modern .45-70': The .444 Marlin. (Introduced in 1965, as, quite literally, the "modern .45-70".)
As a handloader, I feel that I can get a little more out of .444 Marlin than I can .45-70 -- up to 2,600 fps with a 275 gr bullet, and up to 2,250 fps with a 437 gr bullet). And, as a bonus, my swaged bullets using .40 S&W cases as bullet jackets make better .44 caliber bullets than .45 caliber bullets (.430-432" for .444 vs .458-.459" for .45-70).

This is my 3rd .444 Marlin.
#1 is a Handi-Rifle that gets treated like crap, but still does its job. It is the only platform in which I use massively heavy and/or long bullets (like my 437 gr bore-rider cast bullets).
#2 was a Marlin 336C that started life as a .30-30. It was converted to .444 Marlin about 75% by myself (fully functional - just not finished), and finished by one of my brothers (for his own use).
#3 (pictured) was a Marlin 336W in .30-30. I sourced a 'good' Remington-made ballard-rifled tight-twist barrel for it, chopped the barrel to 19", custom ordered the wood for the stocks (knotty screwbean mesquite), converted it to a straight-grip/straight-lever configuration, spent nearly 100 hours fine-tuning the action, and started work shaping the solid brass buttplate and stocks. As of now, it's waiting for the next cold season to be finished.

Cold season is almost here. I can't wait to get back to work checkering that brass, shaping the stocks, and then hand-rubbing 20+ coats of oil into that beautiful wood (looks better in person)... :dancing:

Officially, it's a 336 using stock 336 parts, modified 336 parts, stock 444 parts, modified 444 parts, stock 1895 parts, modified 1895 parts, and a few pieces of custom hardware. ...Oh, and Skinner wing sights.
Unofficially, it's the FrankenMarlin.

Don't worry about the droopy lever. I don't have the lever latch installed. ...among other things (like the blatantly obvious magazine tube and hardware).
FrankenHollow that's a truly beautiful piece of work in progress. I love the wood, and can't wait to see a picture of it once it's finished. Thanks for sharing!

Mel
 
#9 ·
The .45-70 is quite adequate. I shot a black bear with mine this year, and knocked it clear out of the tree it was sitting atop, at right around 150 yards. I was using a handloaded 350 grain bullet at just over 2000 fps. Shot was a complete pass through providing near instant death. Don't let them fool you, it is more than enough round for elk.

Mine is a Marlin 1985 GBL with a laminate stock and open sights, and it is one of my absolute favorite rifles. It is remarkably accurate even with the open sights and shorter barrel. I plan on using it on my next elk hunt.
 
#12 ·
FrankenHollow said:
quychang said:
FrankenHollow that's a truly beautiful piece of work in progress. I love the wood, and can't wait to see a picture of it once it's finished. Thanks for sharing!

Mel
Thanks Mel.
I'm generally a bolt-action guy, but there is a special place in my heart for good lever guns. I've been researching the 336-to-444 conversion for about 4 years. I thought I had made up my mind about what I wanted when I started on the first 336, but quickly changed my mind. ...It had to be more custom.

And once I started down the "custom-build" road... I went all-out to make it something special. I know the knotty stocks are not everyone's cup of tea, but I really like the look. The finished product will probably be a little bit lighter in color, but should look quite similar to the 5th photo down (Marlin 94C) on this page: http://www.treebonecarving.com/customer-photo-gallery.html. My wood was cut from the same tree as those stocks, between 1958 and 1962.
I must admit that I've never really thought about how appropriate knotty wood might be for stocks, but I definitely like something out of the ordinary. Your stock as well as the one you linked most definitely fall into that category. It's interesting that you have the information including the actual tree the stock was cut from. I'm sure from the quality of work already done, that the end product will be a really fine looking custom rifle. A little lighter in color would look amazing, and in fact with that particular piece of wood, I'd probably strive to keep it pretty close to it's natural color. Great job bro, I wish I could work in wood like that. As a former metal worker, wood has never been my forte. I've tried in the past to make simple furniture, etc and while the finished products have always been acceptable, I was never really happy with them. While other people saw a functional aquarium stand, or waterbed frame and headboard, I always saw every flaw when I looked at them. :ROFL: I used to work with a machinist who made hunting knives for a hobby, gorgeous, and hand done all the way from the raw material through the heat treating, to building the custom handles. His work was incredible. I'd put your rifle in the same category.

Mel
 
#14 ·
FrankenHollow said:
Don't give me too much credit. I just muddle my way through most things ...going epochally slow, so as to not screw anything up bad enough that I can't fix it. :wink:

And that wood.... :ack:
Nastiest stuff I've ever worked with, as far as grain structure and hardness. It's like trying to shape cast iron with little streaks of hardened steel and pockets of tungsten mixed in.
It took me 6 days just to inlet the receiver tangs.
And in the same amount of time it took me to rough-shape the wrist of the stock with a coarse [auto-filtered] file, just to get enough clearance to close the lever, I cut the brass for the buttplate, drilled it, counter-sunk the holes, epoxied the threaded inserts (I'm actually using hex-drive machine screws for the plate), rough-shaped the left side of the plate, and scribed some layout lines for the checkering, using the still-square right side ... AND modified a second trigger plate (lower action plate) to get a slightly different profile that would match the lever better.

That wood... it's a labor of love, but there's a lot of said labor. :wink:

Anyway - I didn't want to sidetrack the thread. I just wanted to add my opinion that big bore lever guns are more than adequate for nearly any animal.
.45-70, .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, .405 Winchester, and more... There's plenty of love to go around.
You sound a lot like my friend when someone complimented one of his knives. In the 11 years I worked with him I only knew him to sell one, and trade at most two for other hand made weapons, one of which was a black powder rifle. The sale only happened because someone asked him to put a price on one, and he quoted a big number off the top of his head. They doubled it, and he sold it. I also never knew him to admit to a price again. To put it in perspective he also had an early '60's Corvette in as cherry condition as I've ever seen. I know what numbers he had turned down for it, so I'm comfortable in saying it would be worth 100k or more now.

The point is...he didn't produce prolific amounts of work on his hobbies, but what he did approached perfection. Anyone that's ever worked with knotty wood understands how hard the wood is at the knot, and how difficult it is to work with twisted grains and such around the knot. You're too modest my friend.

I'll now return this thread to it's regularly scheduled topic, but I hope that when you finish the rifle you'll share it with us!

Mel
 
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