UtahConcealedCarry.Com

I'm looking at purchasing an AR15 or something similar. As I'm reading ads and starting the research, I'm finding there's a lot of stuff I just don't know. I was hoping I could borrow the wisdom of some of the members on this forum to help me out. I promise to give it back when I'm done; my wife wouldn't recognize me if I suddenly stopped being a doofus.

First up is vocabulary. Could you please explain what these terms are?

• Upper
• Receiver
• Lower
• gas tube
• piston

Do AR's all shoot the same round (223) or should I be considering other calibers?

What's the difference between an M4 and an AR15?

What are your thoughts an manufacturers? I've seen the best prices so far on Stag Arms AR15's, but Colt's got some good stuff and I've been reading the thread about AFM's stuff up in Tooele.

Lastly, what should one consider before buying an AR15? I'm looking at both new and used. For used guns what should I look for to determine if the weapon is still in good working order?

Thanks a lot for your help! I appreciate the education.

Basically, a whole AR can be easily divided into two parts. These are called the upper and the lower. The lower receiver is officially the "gun" as defined by BATFE, and is the only part regulated by the government. So basically, you can have one lower, and several complete uppers in different barrel lengths, and even different calibers... not just 5.56 or .223.

The gas tube is what makes the action of the gun function, and it uses some of the expanding gases from the ignition of the cartridge to force the bolt and carrier back, ejecting the spent round, and loading another.

Most ARs do not have a piston. That's an AK thing. However, several companies are now introducing gas piston systems for ARs, replacing the gas tube system, and supposedly making them more reliable.

Lots of manufacturers have lots of fans. Just get one that you KNOW is built right, and you'll be OK.

If you need anything else, just ask. Lots of AR fans here! I'll be building a couple of them over the next year. I'll just be sure to get some stripped lowers before the presidential election!

-Matt

I'd post a long reply, but simply don't have time. Everything you ever wanted or needed to know, plus lots of other worthless stuff can be found at www.ar15.com so spend some time there.

Tons of info here too: http://m4carbine.net/forum.php

Spend some time in the Knowledge based threads and most of your NEWB questions will be answered. There are good people there that will be happy to help you with the other stuff.

This thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642 will get you started in the right direction.

Good luck! The AR is a very fun and customizable platform.

First up is vocabulary. Could you please explain what these terms are?

• Upper
• Receiver
• Lower
• gas tube
• piston

Upper receiver consists of the barrel, handguard/rail, gas system (tube/piston), bolt assembly and the part that holds them all together; the actual receiver.



Lower receiver is the part that the grip and butt stock with buffer assembly attach to. It contains the trigger and hammer assembly and as stated before is the "firearm" stamped with a serial number.

Do AR's all shoot the same round (223) or should I be considering other calibers?

.223 is the same (basically) as 5.56. There are slight differences, but if you buy a mil-spec firearm, it should be able to shoot either. ARs are available in 5.56 (.223), 6.5mm and 6.8 Grendel, amongst others (including .22 and 9mm conversions). For your first, I would stick to the basic 5.56.

What's the difference between an M4 and an AR15?

Basically the M4/16 are the military versions that have select or full-auto fire. An AR-15 is the "civilian" version that is semi-automatic.

What are your thoughts an manufacturers? I've seen the best prices so far on Stag Arms AR15's, but Colt's got some good stuff and I've been reading the thread about AFM's stuff up in Tooele.

Stag makes excellent firearms. They are built to military specifications (mil-spec) and will do you well. Colt is expensive and a great manufacturer, but a little overkill for most of us.

Lastly, what should one consider before buying an AR15? I'm looking at both new and used. For used guns what should I look for to determine if the weapon is still in good working order?

There are WAY TOO MANY things to consider, this gun is the Barbie for men, or as I like to say, Mr. Potato Gun. There are so many different sizes and accessories that you can really build something entirely to your specifications. Go look at a few different builds and get a better idea of what you want.

Thanks a lot for your help! I appreciate the education.

No problem, keep posting if you want to discuss this more, we're happy to help.

Thanks for all the info. And thanks to GD for those pictures. It makes more sense now. I'll go check out those sites, too. Forgive me if these next questions are answered there.

What do you mean by a stripped lower?

I understand there are several bans that apply to AR's. The one I know of is they can't be full-auto for civvies any more. What other bans or limitations are there?

Thanks again!

ETA: One more thing, I've seen a couple places touting the piston over the gas tube. Does anyone actually know if one is better than the other?

I understand there are several bans that apply to AR's. The one I know of is they can't be full-auto for civvies any more.

New machines guns cannot legally be manufactured for the civilian market, however full-auto firearms manufactured prior to 1986 are still federally legal. There are minimum-length restrictions that can (federally) be bypassed by the payment of a fee to the government. Some states have laws that are more restrictive then the federal laws.

Stripped lower = lower reciever with no other parts attached to it (stock, buffer tube, trigger assembly, magazine release, trigger guard, take-down pins... NOTHING). The lower is the part with the serial number stamped on it, and is considered the firearm by the BATFE. This is the only part that you have to buy from and FFL...the rest you can simply buy over the internet. Of course you could also by a lower (stripped or assembled) from a private party and avoid your rich Uncles knowledge of the purchase.

Heres a picture of a stripped lower:
http://www.del-ton.com/DPMS_Lower_Receiver_p/lr1000.htm

What do you mean by a stripped lower?

A stripped lower is the single piece of metal that is the lower receiver, minus the trigger/hammer assembly, grip, buffer, butt stock, etc. Here's a picture:



You can get one for around $100. That is the actual firearm... silly huh?

I understand there are several bans that apply to AR's. The one I know of is they can't be full-auto for civvies any more. What other bans or limitations are there?

Mostly it depends on where you live. Some states are pretty restrictive. Utah is pretty lax. You are right, no full-auto unless you can find someone who wants to sell you one of theirs (WHOA!!! can we say $$$$$$$$$ ???). Nothing made after 1985? can be sold to civvies, thanks Regan...

Some states say no full capacity mags, let's only let people have 8-20 rounds... heaven forbid they have more ammo than the police and all of a sudden start shooting cops!!!! oh my!!! Wackos... who thinks of this stuff... really...

Some states won't let you have a bayonet lug - guess they are scared you will be even more deadly with that knife on the tip of your rifle...

Some states won't let you have a multi-position stock (I guess they figure that a collapsible stock means you can get the 20+ inch rifle into secure locations... um... ok), so they make you have a fixed or 4 position stock rather than the nice 6 position stock.

Oh, and some states won't let you have a barrel with the indentation that allows someone to hook up a grenade launcher... LOL Like we could get the actual grenades anyways

If you want a short barrel (7.5" or 10.5" inches) you will need to get a BATFE form and give them a $200 tax stamp for "permission" to have an SBR (short barreled rifle). You can get the standard carbine length (16.5") or an original 20" barrel with no asking of permission.

One more thing, I've seen a couple places touting the piston over the gas tube. Does anyone actually know if one is better than the other?

The idea behind the piston is that the gases are ejected near the gas block (where the front sight is) and do not travel all the way back through the gas tube into the action. This supposedly keep the rifle cooler and cleaner. Implementing this 'feature' just about doubles the cost of your firearm and from everyone that has actually used/owned one, they say it's a neat novelty, but doesn't really make much difference. As stated before, I would go with a standard AR for your first, get to know the platform and then, if you want, buy something 'abnormal' as a later purchase.

FYI: I bought a stripped lower and a parts kit. It was a lot of fun to put together. I bought a complete upper as I didn't want to mess with assembling an upper (lots of tools needed and it's too easy to do it wrong). If you decide to get an AR, FBMG has an entry-level class that teaches you how to disassemble, clean and reassemble the firearm. If that's of interest to you, check out: FBMG AR Armorers Course.

Thanks for the original post, some very good questions I myself have been wondering. I in no way mean to hijack the threat, but may I ask for some more information on brands? I have heard that there are two or three to stay away from, but I cannot remember what they are.

Thanks

What are you going to do with your AR? Is it going to be an occasional plinker with 500 rounds a year run through it or are you going to be shooting on a professional level? Do you want a benchrest rifle or a close quarters carbine? Home defense or home on the range?

As you have found, the AR is available in so many different configurations and there are a huge amount of accessories for it. Underneath all of the configurations and accessories there is basically a gas operated rifle. The quality of the parts and how they are put together is what will make or break it's operation.

If you go with a rifle length (20" or longer) the parts are less critical because of the way the gas system is designed. The shorter the gas system, the more stress is put on the bolt, carrier, and buffer assy. The most important part of an AR-15 is the bolt carrier assy. and the magazines in my opinion.
Bolt carrier assy, the heart of the operation:


If you put together your own, I would spend the money on a good bolt carrier assembly and make sure I have the correct buffer behind it. I won't tell you what is the best but I recently read this little article and really like the direction the writer took to build a "beginner" carbine: http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/59827.html

A few other additions:

- There are really 3 categories or names for the guns in this family - the M-16, the M-4, and the AR-15.


M-16's are always military and have full auto (M16A1 and A3) or the 3 round burst (M16A2 and A4) function. You can't have one unless you steal it or are rich. M-16s have a 20" barrel.

M-16A2

M-4's are also military, have the 3 round burst (M4) or full auto (M4A1) option, but have a 14.5" barrel. They are easily distinguished due to the notched barrel a few inches from the barrel. It's used for connecting the M203 grenade launcher.



The M-4 model is also available to civilians without selective fire. Guns with a barrel less than 16" are categorized as SBRs (Short Barreled Rifles) and you have to pay big bucks to get one. As such, most civilian M-4s have a 1.5" flash hider and/or muzzle brake to extend the 14.5" to 16". There's much debate as to whether these differences still makes the gun an M-4 or something else. Thus was coined the term "M-forgery". The short of it is that you can buy an M-4 with these minor changes.

AR-15s is a term is used to describe all civilian guns that fit in the categories and others. A non-military M-16 is an AR. As is a civilian M-4. Or a .308 Bushmaster. AR's come in many different calibers, styles, and configurations. M4's and M-16s are always 5.56/.223.

- While most ARs can interchange 5.56 and .223, some cannot. Make sure your gun can fire both before trying it out. You must check the inscription on the barrel for this, not the lower.

- There are generally three types of uppers - A1, A2, and A3/A4. A1's and A2's have a permanently attached handle and rear sights.

Optics are attached onto the carry handle putting them several inches above the barrel.

A3's and A4's have removable handles so you can attach optics, etc. to the picatinny rail on the top of the gun. All M4's have flat tops.

This, when used in conjunction with hand guard rails, allow uncountable configurations of optics, attachments, dohickies, and thingamabobs.

The biggest advantage to the flat top is that you can swap optics with negligible impact on accuracy. (Technically speaking, an M-16A3 is also a fixed handle, but for civilians A3 usually means flat topped.)

- Regarding brands, there's not a significant difference between most manufacturers. Colt, DPMS, Bushmaster, and Rock River Arms always seem to be the most highly reviewed. And the beauty of ARs are the part are usually interchangeable - meaning you can have uppers, lowers, and other parts all from different manufacturers. As such, the key it to find manufacturers that most closely build them to spec tolerances. I've been very happy with my Bushmaster M4 (also at Impact Guns).

You've gotten a lot of good info. Any more questions give me a call at FBMG. 801-571-1160. We'd all be glad to answer any questions you have.

Everything y'need t'know about the AR:
http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Hate_the_AR15.htm

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Ishpeck wrote:Everything y'need t'know about the AR:
http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Hate_the_AR15.htm

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Madoger is a friend of mine. Very knowledgable.