Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby UtahCFP » Wed 15 Feb 2012 10:16 am

I posted this because it affects YOU!


Yes, it does. What you are hearing from us is how we think we would have handled. The "grunt-level employee" has been hurt and offended -- do you think his next encounter with someone OC'ing will be better or worse than the one with you?

As I recommend to my CFP students, if you are going to OC then you should be prepared to explain the laws of the State over-and-over with patience and respect.
Last edited by UtahCFP on Wed 15 Feb 2012 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby Joe Cool » Wed 15 Feb 2012 10:27 am

UtahCFP wrote:
Joe Cool wrote:I posted this because it affects YOU!



Yes, it does. What you are hearing from us is how we think we would have handled. The "grunt-level employee" has been hurt and offended -- do you think his next encounter with someone OC'ing will be better or worse than the one with you?

As I recommend to my CFP students, if you are going to OC then you should be prepared to explain the laws of the State over-and-over with patience and respect.


What you are hearing from me is that I will refuse to be discriminated against because of my age. Glad that you would have handled it differently. However, you were not there and you are likely not 21. If things were reversed, you may not be so quick to disagree. We have no way of knowing that, though.

Judging by his age I doubt that he was really "hurt" much. I hope that his next encounter with someone OC'ing will be pleasant because he will have received the proper corrective training from his employer. Training that should have been provided in the first place and would have ensured that the whole thing never happened.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby pedman » Wed 15 Feb 2012 10:40 am

Wow - round two. DING
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby Snowman » Wed 15 Feb 2012 10:51 am

schmack wrote:You probably shouldn't be urinating on the walls....

?? What does that mean?
I've reread this whole thing... And I think my chat forum education is lacking. Google didn't help either.

I think what the disagreement is now, is aout the treatment of customer servie/store emploees. Depends on the situation, but being aggresive and outraged is low on my list.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby Car Knocker » Wed 15 Feb 2012 10:58 am

Snowman,

Looks like a response to this line in the OP:
Boy, was I mad. I, a law abiding, peaceful citizen and CUSTOMER had been taken into a back office like an elementary student who had been caught urinating on the walls in the bathroom.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby UtahCFP » Wed 15 Feb 2012 11:31 am

Joe Cool wrote:What you are hearing from me is that I will refuse to be discriminated against because of my age. Glad that you would have handled it differently. However, you were not there and you are likely not 21. If things were reversed, you may not be so quick to disagree. We have no way of knowing that, though.


I presumed you handled the "confrontation" with the same grace and demeanor you have demonstrated in your interactions with the members here in this nearly-anonymous forum.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby BuffaloBrandon » Wed 15 Feb 2012 11:53 am

Now listen here. I been carryin for fifty years and I can tell you that things have changed since fifty years ago. We got ourselves a Marxist in the white house, people are teaching their youngns that guns are bad, but sex and drugs are good, and law abiding citizens such as this young man are gettin attacked BY EMPLOYEES AT A GUN STORE! Thanks for sharing this story. I will shop at Cabellas, but will only buy from my locly owned firearms dealers. Your friend, I'm sure, feels the same way being told he can't even look at guns that he could be buying in a few months!? Boy, when I was your age, my pappy had me carrying a Colt .45 . I know there are some punk kids out there, but carrying a gun is serious business, and I doubt even a kid would OPEN carry without knowing the laws completely and risk going to jail. If you think this young man shouldn't have reservations about cabellas after being treated like a criminal instead of a customer, a customer who obviously likes to buy guns, then go live in New York. :dancing:
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby UtahCFP » Wed 15 Feb 2012 12:12 pm

Were Joe actually treated like a criminal, we would be reading about the police report rather than the multiple apologies from the manager.

As for the current state of affairs with regard to gun rights, we have seen a steady advancement of concealed carry across the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_ ... ted_States), a lowering of accidental firearm deaths, a supreme court decision saying that the 2nd amendment refers to an individual right, and there is a record low number of citizens favoring a gun ban (http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/recor ... n-ban.aspx).

Things are getting better, incrementally. Constant vigilance is required.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby schmack » Wed 15 Feb 2012 12:14 pm

Joe Cool wrote:What you are hearing from me is that I will refuse to be discriminated against because of my age. Glad that you would have handled it differently. However, you were not there and you are likely not 21. If things were reversed, you may not be so quick to disagree. We have no way of knowing that, though.


I'm 25 and I'll accept being "discriminated against" for my age in that I feel like a 70-year-old man should not be berated and disrespected by a young man of my age for a misunderstanding of the law. I also feel like a 40-year-old man should not be berated for agreeing with me and apologizing for something that his employee did (which employee should probably have retired 10 years ago, but can't afford to).

I wasn't there, so I didn't see body language or facial expression or tone of voice, but what I read comes off as arrogant, and your responses to others on this thread support the arrogance I've read into your experience at Cabela's.

I suspect that manager truly doesn't care if you go back to Cabela's. From his point of view:

Manager: [Thinking to himself] Oh boy, here comes Ted, perturbed about something again. I really don't have time for this. Looks like he's made a customer mad.
Ted: [Interrupting the conversation between Manager and older customer] Frank, this young man and his friend are carrying handguns illegally! They have to be 21 to have a handgun, but he doesn't believe me.
Manager: [Resolved to act as peacekeeper] Well, Ted, I have a pamphlet here that states the law. Shall we have a look again? [handing the pamphlet to Joe Cool]
Joe Cool: [Smugly reading from pamphlet] "Possession of dangerous weapon by minor: A minor under 18 years of age may not possess a dangerous weapon . . ."
Ted: [Stammering] You hafta be 21 to have a handgun.
Manager: No, it says here that you only need to be 18, that is what he just read.
Ted: [Defiant, yet desperate] Well that's not how Jim and me read it!
Manager: [Rereading] "Possession of dangerous weapon by minor: A minor under 18 years of age may not possess a dangerous weapon . . ."
[Manager hands the pamphlet to Ted, showing him where he just read]

Joe Cool: [Eyes narrowing, voice quieter] This is how you treat all of your customers?
[Surprised at the sudden hostility, Manager does not immediately respond]
Joe Cool: You know, we have been here for hours. We came here to shop and we haven't bothered anyone. We are well within the law and you are treating us like this. I've been taken into some back room to be reprimanded for following the law. I have taken a class and received certification for the Utah CCP and I'm being told I'm wrong about something I know quite intimately? I am not a criminal and yet I am being treated like one.
Manager: [Trying to defuse the situation that has suddenly presented itself] No, you're right, the law says 18 years old, not 21. I apologize.
Joe Cool: [Ignoring Manager's apology] The issue is obviously training. You need to train your employees better.
Ted: [Defiantly] Training, huh?
Joe Cool: [Laughing at Ted] Yeah, obviously you need to be trained. You don't know the law and you treat customers like this just because you think that you have some kind of authority? What gives you the right? Nothing.
[Ted says nothing, but glares at Joe Cool.]
Joe Cool: [now seemingly in a full rant] I shop here a lot and so do many people I know. People are going to hear about this, and I don't expect you'll get much of my business anymore.
Manager: [Now just wishing to end the confrontation] I apologize.
Joe Cool: [To indignant Ted] You need training. [Turns and leaves]
[In the background we can hear Joe Cool and friend laughing and mocking]
Manager: [Relieved the confrontation is over, turns to Ted] Take a short break and calm down, Ted. If you see someone carrying a handgun again, just leave them be and come tell me.
[Ted walks out]
Manager: [To waiting, interrupted customer] Sorry about that, Gus. Some people's kids, huh?
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby Joe Cool » Wed 15 Feb 2012 12:24 pm

schmack wrote:I wasn't there


Correct, and that is probably where you should leave things because your assessment is incorrect.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby schmack » Wed 15 Feb 2012 12:27 pm

Joe Cool wrote:
schmack wrote:I wasn't there


Correct, and that is probably where you should leave things because your assessment is incorrect.


Haha, alright, consider it left. You don't like to be criticized, corrected, or to hear another point of view.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby BuffaloBrandon » Wed 15 Feb 2012 12:51 pm

schmack wrote:
Joe Cool wrote:
schmack wrote:I wasn't there


Correct, and that is probably where you should leave thing

s because your assessment is incorrect.


Haha, alright, consider it left. You don't like to be criticized, corrected, or to hear another point of view.


How can you correct, criticise, or give another point of view if you weren't there?
It is absurd that a 21 year old can not share an unpleasant experience for YOUR benefit, without having everyone "playing the devils advocate". You can't assume what you think actually happened just because a 21 year old could never possibly tell the truth. Let's assume that Joe Cool and his friend were "laughing at and mocking" them because thats what punk kids do. I would think that any discussion after the unpleasant encounter would not be to make fun of the staff, but to criticize the fact that they are good paying customers who obviously are big fans of the store, like what it sells, and probably traveled quite a distance to go there, and be treated like they are doing something wrong. If you think that Joe Cool should have just let it go, how could he have? Here is this employee telling him that he is doing something illegal, and that he needs to do this and that. The point is that the employee should never accuse the customer of doing something unlawful. Of an employee feels that someone is doing something that could involve the law, he should involve a manager immediately. The old man probably didn't know the age requirements because why should he? He's 70. But Joe Cool never said "hey I'm a punk kid with a gun, what are you going to do about it old man? Confront me so I can argue with you and make you feel foolish" he was minding his own business and this employee, plain and simple, accused a CUSTOMER of breaking the law and that is unacceptable.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby BuffaloBrandon » Wed 15 Feb 2012 1:16 pm

Nobody is calling for a boycott. Take what you will from the boys story and do whatever the Sam heck you want. If all you are going to say Is that "he has a chip on his shoulder" or that he is just a young, stubborn, cocky kid, then let me ask, WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL HIM DIFFERENTLY, IF YOUR WHOLE POINT IS THAT HE WILL NOT LISTEN? ah heck. It's fine to think, based off of how you read what happened, that you would have done things differently, but fact is, its already been done. The boy didn't post this so that you could be his ma n pa, he just wanted to share an experience he had with people who share his interests so that they could be aware.
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Re: Very Poor Experience at Cabela's Yesterday

Postby Car Knocker » Wed 15 Feb 2012 1:27 pm

UCC is, by definition, a discussion forum. That means we discuss various things, including the experiences of people who post about them. If people can't discuss what is posted because 'they weren't there', then there's not much point in starting a thread about an experience. Certainly attitude and demeanor can be inferred from the content of the writings of a member and has always been fair game when discussing an incident, including the poster's interactions (if any) to those who may have precipitated the incident. It should be expected that not all commentary will consist of positive reinforcement since perceptions vary.

This thread has pretty much devolved into personal conflict and I have my doubts that it will improve, therefore I'm going to lock it at this point.
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