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OC and "Utah Unloaded"

11K views 28 replies 19 participants last post by  Snurd 
#1 ·
Are there any of you who conceal on a regular basis but when you OC you remove one from the chamber?

I was talking to someone and for them, they don't like to OC with one in the chamber but once it's concealed, it's ready to go.
 
#3 ·
No the only time I remove the round from the chamber is if I am carrying off body, such as in a backpack when camping or something. The overwhelming majority of the time I carry the same way... fully loaded, hammer decocked, safety on. If I ever need to draw my firearm, I dont want to have to think about whether the gun is ready to fire or not.
 
#8 ·
i only carry unchambered if i am not using a holster... liek in the pocket of my cargo shorts
 
#9 ·
gravedancer said:
JulietHotel said:
Are there any of you who conceal on a regular basis but when you OC you remove one from the chamber?

I was talking to someone and for them, they don't like to OC with one in the chamber but once it's concealed, it's ready to go.
No the only time I remove the round from the chamber is if I am carrying off body, such as in a backpack when camping or something. The overwhelming majority of the time I carry the same way... fully loaded, hammer decocked, safety on. If I ever need to draw my firearm, I dont want to have to think about whether the gun is ready to fire or not.
X2 except no hammer or safety on my m&p

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#10 ·
JulietHotel said:
Car Knocker said:
JulietHotel said:
I was talking to someone and for them, they don't like to OC with one in the chamber but once it's concealed, it's ready to go.
Did this person tell you why that's his preference?
Just seemed they didn't want to be hassled by police if stopped. Even with a CFP.
If you have a CFP, it doesn't matter if you OC or CC, you can carry it loaded. It's right in the law that the CFP exempts you from not being able to carry loaded.

Sent from iSnurd
 
#13 ·
Rule #1 for the 4 Rule crowd: - Treat firearms as if they are always loaded.
Rule #1 for the 3 Rule crowd: - Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

If you always follow your #1 rule, and it is legal for you to do so, then always carrying loaded shouldn't represent a safety issue as much as it would point out a need to address a "mindset" issue.

The extra time that it takes to chamber may leave too little time to do what needs to be done.
 
#14 ·
Some people who do this have told me they do so to make it hard for someone to snatch their gun and use it immediately. To them I say, get a holster with some kind of active retention and take some weapons retention training. Then carry your gun with one in the pipe so you don't someday get confused as to what state your pistol is in and make a potentially life ending choice, or not have time to do what needs done.
 
#15 ·
Doctor Jenks said:
ObiRich said:
faydee said:
i only carry unchambered if i am not using a holster... liek in the pocket of my cargo shorts
Get a pocket holster...
Seriously. Accident waiting to happen. Get a pocket holster.
i totally know

i hardly do it but still no excuse, i shouldn't do it :oops:
 
#16 ·
dewittdj said:
The extra time that it takes to chamber may leave too little time to do what needs to be done.
Just to give the other perspective since I know there is more than one person on this list who has made a deliberate, and I think informed decision to carry with a round not in the chamber:

I am lead to believe that the Israeli military carries with the chamber empty. They train to draw and chamber in one motion and then shoot. If there is still a round in a chamber from having previously shot and then momentarily reholstered, they still draw and chamber in one motion. The cost is one round on the ground.

A fine case can be made for carrying fully loaded with a round in the chamber. It is my preferred method of carrying when carrying a 1911 or other firearm with a manual, external safety.

But a decent case can also be made for carrying with the chamber empty, especially for the private citizen who, between legal off-limit locations and employment policies, may need to disarm and re-arm several times a day. The risk of needing the gun in a situation where there isn't the opportunity to chamber a round must be weighed against the risk of an ND. Yes, perfect adherence to all safety rules, plus perfect use of locked storage will prevent these problems. But as our host has pointed out, some of us know we are human and less-than-perfect, and so carrying with the chamber empty can provide an extra margin of safety.

Chamber empty is now my preferred method of carrying when carrying a firearm that does not have an external, manual safety. This is especially true when pocket carrying. Yes, I use a pocket holster and it covers the trigger. And it works quite well. But it is not as secure as kydex retention holster. So keeping the chamber empty provides me an extra margin of safety against any kind of an ND.

Others will do their own risk-benefit analysis and arrive at a different conclusion than I have. But for me, this seems the proper balance.

Charles
 
#17 ·
Some of us carry without a round chambered because that's the price the wife has set to having guns in the house. I just need to train more to chamber the round as I'm drawing the gun.
 
#18 ·
This is where I find snap caps to be the most useful. I can dry fire and practice trigger control without them just fine, but when training to draw and load I like to have a magazine with snap caps. Start slow then once you find a good teqnique, with a magazine of snap caps I draw, rack slide, & acquire a target. Pull trigger. Then reholster & repeat. Obviously this can be done without the caps but I like the feeling of a round entering the chamber or not entering if you only half rack or have a malfunction of some sort, which wouldn't be revealed if I was training with no mag.
 
#19 ·
Photocell said:
This is where I find snap caps to be the most useful. I can dry fire and practice trigger control without them just fine, but when training to draw and load I like to have a magazine with snap caps. Start slow then once you find a good teqnique, with a magazine of snap caps I draw, rack slide, & acquire a target. Pull trigger. Then reholster & repeat. Obviously this can be done without the caps but I like the feeling of a round entering the chamber or not entering if you only half rack or have a malfunction of some sort, which wouldn't be revealed if I was training with no mag.
Thanks for the tip.
 
#20 ·
I have also done this while waiting for my permit. But I would also recommend sometimes draw, rack, acquire target, don't shoot. The practice of drawing is to learn muscle memory as you already know. As I believe that you should never draw your gun unless you plan to use it. A situation could become a don't shoot just as fast as it became a shoot situation. Examples: target background just changed. Threat has disappeared. Threat has became a crying little girl that just wet there pants and dropped to the ground in the fetal position. But the main one to me would be little molly dropped her ball as you drew and it rolled by the perp and she is chasing it. Is there a chance you could hit her? Over-penetration?

Sorry if hard to understand. On my phone at lunch and it's hard to proof read.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
bagpiper said:
Just to give the other perspective since I know there is more than one person on this list who has made a deliberate, and I think informed decision to carry with a round not in the chamber
I know Paul has stated he does this a lot.
 
#22 ·
UtahJarhead said:
bagpiper said:
Just to give the other perspective since I know there is more than one person on this list who has made a deliberate, and I think informed decision to carry with a round not in the chamber
I know Paul has stated he does this a lot.
Just to add my two cents. Being partially disabled, there are times when I choose not to carry because I'm using muscle relaxers and/or pain medication. When everything is situation normal, I carry. The problem is, I have three carry guns to choose from, and choosing not to carry reasonably often, I don't like guns that aren't under my more or less constant control being left with a round in the chamber. I "choose" to leave a 9mm in my bedroom drawer with in quick reach, with a full magazine. Otherwise, they're under lock and key. But I have young nieces who visit, and I won't risk having a gun where they could get it, ready to fire.

Because of the switching, and carrying situations, I choose to carry Utah unloaded with my semi-auto's. Like people have mentioned, I practice drawing and racking the slide. Sometimes with snap caps, sometimes without. When I'm carrying a lot, as in most of the time, then I do switch and carry one in the chamber. Also if I know I'm going in to a situation that may be more dangerous than usual, I'll rack in a round before I leave my vehicle.

All rambling aside, I think it's a situational question. I may be doing either at any given time. I make a strong effort to be aware of the condition of the gun, and because I'm not consistent for what I consider to be good reasons, I think I'm more aware of it than most people. Oh, and just to be obstinate, when I carry my LCR it's always condition 1, I'm not willing to give up a round, I'm just ultra aware of the fact that it's ready to fire.

Sorry for muddying the waters, but just pointing out that there are different perspectives, and that they may change depending on circumstances.

Mel
 
#23 ·
UtahJarhead said:
bagpiper said:
Just to give the other perspective since I know there is more than one person on this list who has made a deliberate, and I think informed decision to carry with a round not in the chamber
I know Paul has stated he does this a lot.
You just felt the urge to oust our forum owner, throw him under the bus? Tattle tale. :wink:
 
#24 ·
Photocell said:
UtahJarhead said:
bagpiper said:
Just to give the other perspective since I know there is more than one person on this list who has made a deliberate, and I think informed decision to carry with a round not in the chamber
I know Paul has stated he does this a lot.
You just felt the urge to oust our forum owner, throw him under the bus? Tattle tale. :wink:
In Charles defense, if you can find the thread, Paul posted quite a long explanation supporting his decision to mostly carry Utah unloaded. He threw himself under the bus in defense of other members that were arguing the point and gave his perspective. Charles simply alluded to the post without searching for a link to the thread. I'm going to do the same, because I'm a lazy old man :lol3: , I'm not going to speculate on Charles reason for not researching it.

Mel
 
#26 ·
Do what you want, it's a mostly free state. Just two things come to mind. First, this idea that you are more likely to get harassed by the police because you have a round chambered seemss entirely invented. Second, there is a long list of things you could be doing with your weak hand when you need to fight unexpectedly. I trained Israeli carry extensively while I was deployed, because we were required to carry unloaded. In addition to there being additional steps, the M-9 has a slide-mounted safety which is way too easy to switch to 'on' during an emergency rack. I learned to use the dimples on the front of the slide th rack it.
 
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