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Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

9K views 22 replies 15 participants last post by  Uinta Firearms 
#1 ·
http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practici ... ed-of-gun/

GRESHAM, Ore. (KOIN 6) - A man practicing his open carry right was robbed of the gun he was openly carrying.

William Coleman III was robbed of his Walter- brand P22 just after 2:00 a.m. October 4 in Gresham by a young man who asked him for it - and flashed his own weapon as persuasion.
 
#2 ·
If you're going to open carry, you need to be very aware of your surroundings. No shame in covering it (if legally able) when you think you're alone or susceptible to violence.
 
#3 ·
UtahJarhead said:
If you're going to open carry, you need to be very aware of your surroundings. No shame in covering it (if legally able) when you think you're alone or susceptible to violence.
Maybe I'm overly suspicious, but this story has a fishy smell to me.

I can't imagine just handing my gun over to the first person to flash a concealed weapon my direction. First, if purchased new, it's tied to me by serial number. I'm not going to willingly put it in the hands of a criminal. Second, isn't one of the reasons we carry to defend ourselves from robbery and or bodily harm? What's to keep the criminal from taking the gun and shooting you to cover his crime?

I would have unholstered at his request, and then invited him to come and take it. If he had a gun trained on me, that would be entirely different, but if he never unholstered his weapon, he just gave me the upper hand by allowing me to draw first. Somehow I think the end result would be somewhat different.

But then, I wasn't there, and that's just me.

Mel
 
#4 ·
The guy who took was probably just offended that he was open carrying a P22. :crown:

Wait he bought it earlier that day?......Almost sounds like a straw purchase disguised as a robbery to me.
 
#6 ·
Car Knocker said:
According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said ""I like your gun. Give it to me."
Well, that's a different kettle of fish. I'd still be tempted to give it to him one bullet at a time, but it's a close call.

Mel

EDIT: On further research, and looking it up, I'd probably have thrown the gun at him. Likely to do more damage than a .22.
 
#8 ·
This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!
 
#9 ·
Car Knocker said:
According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said ""I like your gun. Give it to me."
Id still most likely give it to him "one bullet at a time" as Mel said. Or better yet, invite him to take it from my holster, and when he reached in conveniently close to do so, perhaps disable him by some other means.
 
#10 ·
dewittdj said:
This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!
Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.
 
#11 ·
gravedancer said:
Car Knocker said:
According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said ""I like your gun. Give it to me."
Id still most likely give it to him "one bullet at a time" as Mel said. Or better yet, invite him to take it from my holster, and when he reached in conveniently close to do so, perhaps disable him by some other means.
This is a good reason for a BUG. once you give him the one (accidentally dropping the mag out in the process) he relaxes and thinks hes good then you can get him with the other one. :dancing:
 
#12 ·
D-FIN said:
Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.
Dry fire practice is the cheapest and easiest way to sharpen these skills, but at some point, you're going to need to do some live fire. Probably among the best options are the USPSA or IDPA matches held at Wahsatch, Cache Valley, Lee Kay, or the F.A.R.M. If you aren't a member, then the first time you shoot in a match is free (add range fee if you aren't a member of that particular range).

These matches allow you to test your speed and accuracy using a variety of scenarios and methods. They don't teach you the skills but allow you to test them in an environment that is challenging and adds a bit of stress as you race against time.

Most of the public ranges do not allow the general public to practice drawing and firing on the ranges used by the general public.
 
#13 ·
D-FIN said:
dewittdj said:
This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!
Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.
Airsoft is one of the cheapest and most effective tools for the type of training you indicated. You can get a lifelike mock-up of most firearms out there that react the same as a real firearm in all aspects except for most of the recoil. You still get to work accuracy while moving and can include an opposing force to help you identify what works.

I'm not an airsoft gamer and have no intentions of joining a team. I just recognize the value of a good training environment that can provide immediate feedback in a realistic environment. I hope to have a good facility soon where the public can conduct this type of training.
 
#14 ·
Sam Fidler said:
D-FIN said:
dewittdj said:
This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!
Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.
Airsoft is one of the cheapest and most effective tools for the type of training you indicated. You can get a lifelike mock-up of most firearms out there that react the same as a real firearm in all aspects except for most of the recoil. You still get to work accuracy while moving and can include an opposing force to help you identify what works.

I'm not an airsoft gamer and have no intentions of joining a team. I just recognize the value of a good training environment that can provide immediate feedback in a realistic environment. I hope to have a good facility soon where the public can conduct this type of training.
This also reminds me to go try out the laser training stuff at The Armory or The Gun Vault sometime.
 
#16 ·
I would not turn over my gun to a robber, No way would I let a weapon (Mine) be used in a crime or possibly kill another innocent person. An armed thug want's my wallet, car or even my wife's wedding ring, it is not worth dying for. But if you are going to carry, in my opinion you have a distinct obligation to protect innocent people from harm. Giving up your gun to a criminal is not an option IMO for someone that chooses to carry. (open or concealed)

If a criminal is demanding my gun, then the answer is a question back to him. Are you willing to die for it? Because even if you shoot me first I will be able to get off at least 2-3 rounds back into you before I loose consciousness.
 
#17 ·
It's all well and good to say you'll never let a criminal take your firearm. It's a great sentiment, if a little unrealistic. Let's not pretend that there isn't a circumstance where giving up your firearm will be your only likely chance for survival. And if you're dead, they still get your firearm.

Perhaps you could overcome one guy, but what if there were several of them? Presumably, you're already in a situation where they have their own firearms trained on you, they know you have a firearm as well, and you have not drawn.

If somebody steals your firearm, and used it to hurt somebody, its not your fault. No more than a rape victim is at fault for what happened to them. Let's not forget that these perpetrators clearly already have firearms. In short, they don't really need yours to hurt somebody else, when they already have their own.
 
#22 ·
This is the reason firearms training isn't enough. If the guy has to get close enough to take the firearm, he's vulnerable.

I practice Danzan Ryu Jiu Jitsu, though I'm a novice. It gives you far more options for self defense than any weapon or device can, and teaches you things like facing the danger, getting off the x, and other things that translate directly to armed self defense.

Train, and diversify.
 
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