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Witnessed an interesting police encounter last night

13K views 26 replies 13 participants last post by  J_dazzle23 
#1 ·
So I thought I would share an interesting event I witnessed last night on Canyon Road in Provo. I was driving home a few blocks from a park with a couple of my kids and saw police lights up ahead. As we approached I noticed several police cars had pulled over a truck and there was a man standing near the rear of the truck. The police, who had weapons drawn including one officer with his shotgun were ordering the man to put his hands on his head. He complied and I noticed he had an openly carried handgun in a holster on his right hip. The first thought that popped into my head was that this could possibly be an open carry stop, and I was very curious about what was going on since there were so many police and weapons being pointed at this person. However considering that I had my kids in the car I passed as safely as I could, noticing more officers arriving. I dropped the kids off at my home and drove back to the scene which by this time had calmed down tremendously. Weapons were put away, and the man was calmly sitting on the tailgate of his truck. Soon all but 3 officers drove away and the man appeared to be talking and joking with the officers. I remained on the opposite side of the street and made sure not to interfere with what was going on, I simply observed. I thought that I might wait until the stop was done and ask either the officers or the man what the situation was to find out if there was some reason that warranted such a response from the police, or if it was simply a call on a "man with a gun" who might be legally open carrying. I am not saying that is what was going on, because I do not know for sure, and when I called the police records today I was informed that there was a call about a truck that was following someone, but they didn't have any other details. Again it appeared that everything was calm and fine very quickly after the stop, but it was interesting to see such a strong response from police, and it was good to see that none was injured.
 
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#3 ·
It did seem a bit excessive with the overall show of force (7-8 officers, guns drawn, some with shotguns), and that was one reason why I was curious. It was also interesting because I have watched a lot of YouTube videos recently about open carry stops, etc...(mostly looking for great examples of officers respecting rights and not overblowing the situation) And here it seems like I was right in the middle of one. Again from what I can tell from speaking with the police office and a few witnesses that were there for the whole thing is that the police were called for the truck following another vehicle. I do not know if the call alerting police to the weapon, if the people who called had knowledge of the weapon, or if the man was threatening the people who called and that is what brought such a response or what. I did do a bit of filming, but my wife summoned me home before the whole thing ended (I obeyed). I wanted to see if the man was given his gun back at the end. I can tell you that I never saw the man in handcuffs, or in the back of a police car. He was armed when I drove by the first time and when I got back he was sitting on his tailgate swinging his legs back and forth joking with the officers. When I left it looked like the man was filling out a report.
 
#4 ·
The story of the police being called for the truck following someone is interesting to me as well, because I have noticed on a couple of occasions that I have left a store in the middle of Orem or somewhere like that and I am traveling home, and I notice that I have been following a car for a while, in fact on one occasion I left Target at the same time as another vehicle and we both headed the same direction and ultimately I ended up behind them until I turned onto my street. I have a pretty noticeable car that stands out quite a bit anywhere I go, so I thought to myself "I hope these people don't think I am following them" lol. This is not a situation I would like to go through for simply driving home from the store.
 
#5 ·
climbingcapitalist said:
The story of the police being called for the truck following someone is interesting to me as well, because I have noticed on a couple of occasions that I have left a store in the middle of Orem or somewhere like that and I am traveling home, and I notice that I have been following a car for a while, in fact on one occasion I left Target at the same time as another vehicle and we both headed the same direction and ultimately I ended up behind them until I turned onto my street. I have a pretty noticeable car that stands out quite a bit anywhere I go, so I thought to myself "I hope these people don't think I am following them" lol. This is not a situation I would like to go through for simply driving home from the store.
I agree. It seems like there may be some details you haven't been given, tbh. Makes me scratch my head a bit.
 
#7 ·
Without knowing details it is impossible to know whether or to what extent lawful possession of a firearm may have played any role in this whatsoever.

Some years ago I got lit up while driving to work one morning on a sparsely traveled road in SL County. I was a bit surprised because I hadn't done anything wrong. I stopped, rolled down the window and was ready for the usual request for paperwork as the officer walk up. Instead, he said, "Please keep your hands on the wheel where I can see them," as he had his hand on his gun and walked to the front of my car, turning sideways to keep an eye on me. He took one look at my front bumper, moved his hand away from his gun and visibly relaxed.

As he walked past my window he said simply, "I'm sorry for the inconvenience. We're looking for a car involved in an incident and from the back yours matched the description. But from the front it obviously wasn't you. Have a nice day." And he was gone.

The entire stop was probably less than 2 minutes total.

My point? Even being the one stopped I can't tell you anything beyond what the officer told me. I can easily imagine that there might be cases where the car they are looking for is for something serious enough that if they find a close match they might make a full felony stop.

So maybe what you saw had everything to do with a visibly armed man. Or maybe it had nothing to do with OCing.

Charles
 
#9 ·
bagpiper said:
Without knowing details it is impossible to know whether or to what extent lawful possession of a firearm may have played any role in this whatsoever.

Some years ago I got lit up while driving to work one morning on a sparsely traveled road in SL County. I was a bit surprised because I hadn't done anything wrong. I stopped, rolled down the window and was ready for the usual request for paperwork as the officer walk up. Instead, he said, "Please keep your hands on the wheel where I can see them," as he had his hand on his gun and walked to the front of my car, turning sideways to keep an eye on me. He took one look at my front bumper, moved his hand away from his gun and visibly relaxed.

As he walked past my window he said simply, "I'm sorry for the inconvenience. We're looking for a car involved in an incident and from the back yours matched the description. But from the front it obviously wasn't you. Have a nice day." And he was gone.

The entire stop was probably less than 2 minutes total.

My point? Even being the one stopped I can't tell you anything beyond what the officer told me. I can easily imagine that there might be cases where the car they are looking for is for something serious enough that if they find a close match they might make a full felony stop.

So maybe what you saw had everything to do with a visibly armed man. Or maybe it had nothing to do with OCing.

Charles
Along the same vein, a co worker of mine was stopped in Sugarhouse area and detained for a couple of hours, simply because his car matched the description of one used in a crime. The only description of the perp was blonde hair. You guessed it. Same make and model car, same color. Blonde dude driving. It did get sorted out after a couple of hours, but he did get a ride to the station and spoken to at length prior to his release.

Mel
 
#10 ·
My wife who is a supervisor at a bank got a call from one of her employees informing her that he was going to be late. He was stopped by the police because his car matched the description of one used in a bank robbery.
 
#11 ·
I got pulled over once on I-15 by a Utah County Sheriff vehicle. There were two deputies in it. The one on the passenger side got out, ran up to my passenger window, looked at me and said "Sorry, you're not him" and ran back to the truck and sped off. I still have no idea what that was about. I don't think they were chasing a criminal of any sort with the way he approached the vehicle. Maybe they were looking for someone who's wife had gone into labor or something like that. Not that they're big on doing stuff like that, at least on the freeway.

Matt
 
#12 ·
Well, it could be anything. You have to remember that if you're open carrying and a crime has been reported in the vicinity you will raise some red flags. In my opinion open carry is a very poor choice unless you are in a rural area or out in the middle of nowhere. Now don't get me wrong. I'm one of the most avid supporters of exercising your rights, but in Utah, a shall issue state, there is not a real reason you need to go through all the hassle. Just carry concealed. :roll:
 
#15 ·
aaron said:
In my opinion open carry is a very poor choice unless you are in a rural area or out in the middle of nowhere. Now don't get me wrong. I'm one of the most avid supporters of exercising your rights, but in Utah, a shall issue state, there is not a real reason you need to go through all the hassle. Just carry concealed. :roll:
Who said we needed a reason that's valid to you?

"Because I want to" should be [doggone] good enough.
 
#16 ·
aaron said:
Well, it could be anything. You have to remember that if you're open carrying and a crime has been reported in the vicinity you will raise some red flags. In my opinion open carry is a very poor choice unless you are in a rural area or out in the middle of nowhere. Now don't get me wrong. I'm one of the most avid supporters of exercising your rights, but in Utah, a shall issue state, there is not a real reason you need to go through all the hassle. Just carry concealed. :roll:
Well sure, because if a couple of 17 year old Polynesian punks knock off a convenience store, this fat, balding, pasty white, middle aged dude is going to raise red flags because of my gun. :disgusted:

If a crime has been reported in the vicinity and I match the description of the suspect, I'm going to raise red flags whether I'm visibly armed or not. And a middle-aged white guy, the crime most likely to be committed by anyone whose description I might match is probably something like pedophilia, rather than armed robbery.

Not to mention the fact that I'm really hard pressed to find many cases where armed criminals open carry their firearms in proper holsters.

I'm a fan of CC. I'm a fan of OC. I'm a huge fan of CCC which is either casually concealed carry or "I don't give a rip whether anyone sees my lawfully possessed firearm or not. I'm neither trying to hide it nor trying to expose it. I just don't care to modify my attire around a gun."

When OCing or CCCing, I am almost always CCing a BUG.

As for why OC, or "hassle": Even here along the Wasatch Front, we have several months a year when a cover garment is going to be too warm. St. George spends most of the year with temperatures in that range.

My Utah permit entitles to me carry concealed if I desire. It also allows me to legally carry openly, fully loaded, and into gun free school zones if that is what I want to do. I don't OC every day, but it isn't unusual for me to OC.

In almost 15+ years of doing so along the Wasatch Front, I've had 2 police encounters as a result. Neither was unpleasant or negative. I've also had the chance to have dozens of conversations and provide some education to folks about Utah gun laws.

OCing isn't for everyone I'd never suggest any gun owner has any obligation to do so. But neither should any of us presume to tell anyone else that he shouldn't OC. There are rare exceptions based on personal situations. But generally? No real reason not to OC in Utah if that is what someone wants to do.

Charles
 
#17 ·
aaron said:
Well, it could be anything. You have to remember that if you're open carrying and a crime has been reported in the vicinity you will raise some red flags. In my opinion open carry is a very poor choice unless you are in a rural area or out in the middle of nowhere. Now don't get me wrong. I'm one of the most avid supporters of exercising your rights, but in Utah, a shall issue state, there is not a real reason you need to go through all the hassle. Just carry concealed. :roll:
If not in Utah, then where?

When responding, be mindful that I have lived all over the US. I'm currently in Chicagoland, and will be moving to Philadelphia at the end of July.
 
#18 ·
Uinta Firearms said:
aaron said:
Well, it could be anything. You have to remember that if you're open carrying and a crime has been reported in the vicinity you will raise some red flags. In my opinion open carry is a very poor choice unless you are in a rural area or out in the middle of nowhere. Now don't get me wrong. I'm one of the most avid supporters of exercising your rights, but in Utah, a shall issue state, there is not a real reason you need to go through all the hassle. Just carry concealed. :roll:
If not in Utah, then where?

When responding, be mindful that I have lived all over the US. I'm currently in Chicagoland, and will be moving to Philadelphia at the end of July.
You should move back to Utah. Just sayin'. :p
 
#19 ·
SirGentleman said:
Uinta Firearms said:
aaron said:
Well, it could be anything. You have to remember that if you're open carrying and a crime has been reported in the vicinity you will raise some red flags. In my opinion open carry is a very poor choice unless you are in a rural area or out in the middle of nowhere. Now don't get me wrong. I'm one of the most avid supporters of exercising your rights, but in Utah, a shall issue state, there is not a real reason you need to go through all the hassle. Just carry concealed. :roll:
If not in Utah, then where?

When responding, be mindful that I have lived all over the US. I'm currently in Chicagoland, and will be moving to Philadelphia at the end of July.
You should move back to Utah. Just sayin'. :p
You're preaching to the choir. The state already gets my taxes. My corporate HQ is located in Salt Lake County. But, the wife and I are busy doing our duty to keep America free. Retirement (for her) is at least 14 years away. Once retirement is achieved it will be my turn. I want to try to setup shop in a district where the elected official is anti 2A, and try to introduce them to the back of the unemployment line. Holladay is looking like a nice target right now.

Anyways, we're getting off topic and I don't want to disrespect the OP.
 
#20 ·
Hahaha alright guys. Well, I made it a point to say that I was giving my opinion on OC'ing. I totally agree that the decision is personal and you should do whatever you darn well please. I respect people who open carry. I'm just saying that when you OC you draw attention that I, personally, don't care for. There are other reasons I don't do it, like that fact that it would be easier for someone to take your gun, and you automatically become the first target if someone walks in to rob/shoot up a place. Now, I will agree that its a lot more comfortable and your gun is more accessible, but for me, personally, the pro's don't outweigh the cons. :mrgreen:
 
#21 ·
aaron said:
Hahaha alright guys. Well, I made it a point to say that I was giving my opinion on OC'ing. I totally agree that the decision is personal and you should do whatever you darn well please. I respect people who open carry. I'm just saying that when you OC you draw attention that I, personally, don't care for. There are other reasons I don't do it, like that fact that it would be easier for someone to take your gun, and you automatically become the first target if someone walks in to rob/shoot up a place. Now, I will agree that its a lot more comfortable and your gun is more accessible, but for me, personally, the pro's don't outweigh the cons. :mrgreen:
Opinions aside....

I think there is a LARGE unofficial pot of money over at opencarry.org for the first person to have their gun taken or been attacked BECAUSE they were open carrying (targeted).....

I believe that money has been waiting to be paid out for a VERY long time.

Not to derail the thread- but do some research on people snatching guns for open carriers....you will find a very short list ;)
 
#22 ·
aaron said:
There are other reasons I don't do it, like that fact that it would be easier for someone to take your gun, and you automatically become the first target if someone walks in to rob/shoot up a place.
If your definition of "automatically" is "never" then I would agree. Otherwise, why are people so afraid of something that has never happened?
 
#23 ·
Sam Fidler said:
aaron said:
There are other reasons I don't do it, like that fact that it would be easier for someone to take your gun, and you automatically become the first target if someone walks in to rob/shoot up a place.
If your definition of "automatically" is "never" then I would agree. Otherwise, why are people so afraid of something that has never happened?
Here a couple times that stuff "did" happened. :)

Attacked for gun.
Teen takes gun from open carrier in gas staition robbery and kills two people
Shot by police for just open carrying.
Open carrier robbed for his gun
Open carrier robbed at gunpoint.

Just some food for thought. I don't have time to keep reading through the other similar articles. :thumbsup:
 
#24 ·
aaron said:
Sam Fidler said:
aaron said:
There are other reasons I don't do it, like that fact that it would be easier for someone to take your gun, and you automatically become the first target if someone walks in to rob/shoot up a place.
If your definition of "automatically" is "never" then I would agree. Otherwise, why are people so afraid of something that has never happened?
Here a couple times that stuff "did" happened. :)

Attacked for gun.
Teen takes gun from open carrier in gas staition robbery and kills two people
Shot by police for just open carrying.
Open carrier robbed for his gun
Open carrier robbed at gunpoint.Just some food for thought. I don't have time to keep reading through the other similar articles.
:thumbsup:
Suggesting you do some research into these incidents you've listed---- MANY if not all have probably been discussed at length on this or other Open Carry type sites.
 
#25 ·
JoeSparky said:
Suggesting you do some research into these incidents you've listed---- MANY if not all have probably been discussed at length on this or other Open Carry type sites.
Thanks for letting me know, but the only reason I posted them was because I wanted to inform Sam that, although "automatically" is the wrong word, "never" isn't the word I was looking for. Just maybe "there's a good chance".
:beathorse:
I'll look into those discussions out though, sounds like they could be interesting.
 
#26 ·
aaron said:
JoeSparky said:
Suggesting you do some research into these incidents you've listed---- MANY if not all have probably been discussed at length on this or other Open Carry type sites.
Thanks for letting me know, but the only reason I posted them was because I wanted to inform Sam that, although "automatically" is the wrong word, "never" isn't the word I was looking for. Just maybe "there's a good chance".
:beathorse:
I'll look into those discussions out though, sounds like they could be interesting.
I do know that in the first case you listed the headline was not supported in the associated article. Most likely the man wielding the bat was mentally disturbed and had no idea the man he attacked even had a gun. There is some speculation included in the article from those not present when the attack happened as to a "possible" motive, but nothing reported to support those assertions! :thumbsup:
 
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