I posted this yesterday but I don't know if it actually posted. What are the rules on oc versus cc if you have a concealed weapons permit? I did not think we were allowed to open carry.
Thanks,
Ryan
Thanks,
Ryan
Then why does Utah BCI call it a Concealed FIREARM Permit? I've always wondered that. Should it not be called a Concealed WEAPONS Permit?Cinhil said:Well, both the Drivers License and the CCW are rights, but government feels they must charge you for them for you to be able to exercise these inherent rights. A CCW also allows you to carry almost any weapon legally allowed a citizen to possess. Kind of hard to conceal a tank! (wink) :tank: Seriously though, you could conceal a sword, a knife, a pistol etc. as long as it is a lawful weapon you may carry it concealed or not.
The name of the permit is just a name. The name has no legal meaning; the value of the permit is spelled out in the law, and it exempts you from the law against possession of concealed dangerous weapons (among others).thering said:Then why does Utah BCI call it a Concealed FIREARM Permit? I've always wondered that. Should it not be called a Concealed WEAPONS Permit?
A small correction here.Cinhil said:Well, both the Drivers License and the CCW are rights, but government feels they must charge you for them for you to be able to exercise these inherent rights. A CCW also allows you to carry almost any weapon legally allowed a citizen to possess. Kind of hard to conceal a tank! (wink) :tank: Seriously though, you could conceal a sword, a knife, a pistol etc. as long as it is a lawful weapon you may carry it concealed or not.
I'm not so sure this is the case. While I am certainly not advocating anyone try it out, read the following... Perhaps a new topic of debate?T.M.Ray said:Even with the permit, you still CAN NOT have a firearm O/C or C/C in a court house
The real truth is that I just state my opinions with authority. The less sure I am, the stronger I state them :twisted:T.M.Ray said:P.S. If you have some tough quesitons, ask Divegeek, he is a wealth of information (sorry Shawn, lol)
That being said, so far the AG is on our side on the issue if I remember correctly. He's already put UofU in their place once in the past when they tried to outlaw CC on campus.itsasecret said:Since this thread is titled "Rules of OC" I feel obligated to mention this: the campus police at no less than two public Utah universities maintain that OCing is illegal on campus, even with a CWP. It's an open question how the courts might rule if the question is brought before them under the current legal environment.
I used to work for a guy like that - the more wrong he was, the louder he yelled. :lolbang:divegeek said:The less sure I am, the stronger I state them
You CAN carry loaded, concealed without a permit in your car, but if you get out of the car, not having a permit, it better not be loaded or concealed.Ryan1971 said:Thanks, tm ray. I do have my permit. I got it about a year ago I think. I have a question. Can I conceal carry in my car, loaded, without a permit or does the gun have to be visible?
Thanks,
Ryan
+1,000 I have the EXACT same experiences with OC as T.M. Ray. No one notices and those that do notice I have polite conversations with. Just yesterday I had a middle-aged lady who was sitting next to me in my Managerial Accounting class at UVU say,with a smile on her face, "Apparently you don't have to keep it concealed huh?" I politely explained to her the great laws in Utah that guarantee my rights as outlined in the Constitution. She said, still smiling, "Interesting, I didn't know that. Well, I'm glad that you have that right."T.M.Ray said:Ryan 1971- I see you're rather new here on the board, and I would like to say welcome to UCC. This is a great place to learn soooo much info. There are some super educated folks on here.
Concerning your post: although I am a permit holder, I have become a HUGE fan of loaded & charged Open Carry (O/C) and what we have labeled here on UCC as "Casual Carry". I don't know how much you know about O/C, so forgive me if you already know the points I will cover.
I assume that you don't have your permit yet; forgive me if I'm wrong. As Rupper said, having the permit allows you to carry your firearm on PUBLIC school grounds, fully loaded and charged. If you do not have the permit, you can pass through a school zone, but cannot loiter outside a vehicle within 1,000 ft. As you may know, Utah law now allows you to have your weapon in the vehicle loaded without a permit.
Now, with -or- without the permit, you can be still asked to remove your firearm from any private establishment. Understand this: if you are walking into a store and see the "no firearms" sign, and pass through carrying, you're probably not going to go to jail or anything like that. The only thing the purveyor of the establishment can do is ask you to return the firearm to your vehicle or otherwise leave the premises. If you fail to do so and they call the police, they will probably ask you to do the same. About the only thing they can charge you with is trespassing or disturbing the peace. (*IANAL!)
Even with the permit, you still CANNOT have a firearm O/C or C/C in a courthouse or stand-alone (federal) POST OFFICE. Now, if you have a post office "store" like we do in Syracuse, which is inside the city offices, this law does not apply.
DO NOT open-carry your firearm on any TRAX, UTA, or FRONTRUNNER TRAIN without a permit. If you do so, you may end up going to jail. (See my prior post on this) Remember, the LDS Church is on Utah's NO GUNS list. No other churches are currently listed. As you may have seen on the board, there are sometimes issues at Jazz games. That's a 50/50 chance you may get in, may not.
Finally, let me say this, I O/C 95% of the time, almost everywhere. Know what happens? NOTHING. Most people don't even notice, no kidding. 8) I dress nice when I'm out. I have a nice belt and holster that I'm sure keeps my firearm well secured and the trigger covered. In fact, I get asked quite often if I'm a police officer. (others have too, I've read). I reply with a, "no," and then the questions start. Most of the time it's people that want to know the "rules" of having my firearm. I use this moment to politely educate folks, if I have time, and to try to win the minds of folks who may be on the fence of O/C-ing themselves. Others will cover more points I'm sure. I open carry my firearm EVERYWHERE. I goto Wal-Mart, Staples, Chili's, Goldenwest Credit Union and Barnes Bank (RIP). I go to Smith's, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. with NO problems, all the time. It will feel strange for awhile, but you will get used to it. Good Luck !!
P.S. If you have some tough quesitons, ask Divegeek, he is a wealth of information (sorry Shawn, lol)
No correction needed here, the Right to Travel is a constitutionally protected Right and has been upheld on numerous occasions where cities or states have sought to deprive citizens of monies. You may find these decisions in many places within the texts of law books, where they quote decisions, and other public sources, including law libraries. Some decisions are listed on some web sites as well. But that was not why I posted here, I only mentioned inherent rights which government entities feel they have a ability to charge you in order to allow you certain rights, such as driving or carrying concealed. This other can be a whole thread by itself, should you desire further information, or research may be done to discover it as I have done.Daeyel said:A small correction here.Cinhil said:Well, both the Drivers License and the CCW are rights, but government feels they must charge you for them for you to be able to exercise these inherent rights. A CCW also allows you to carry almost any weapon legally allowed a citizen to possess. Kind of hard to conceal a tank! (wink) :tank: Seriously though, you could conceal a sword, a knife, a pistol etc. as long as it is a lawful weapon you may carry it concealed or not.
You do NOT have the RIGHT to drive. Driving a deadly 2 ton mass of metal is a PRIVILEGE the state will grant you after you show you have taken the appropriate classes on how to operate one safely, and have a reasonable understanding of the laws and regulations pertaining to speed, rights of way, etc etc.
In no way is it a right.
Gun ownership, however, IS a right as guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment.
However, numerous court rulings have also upheld the authority of the states to restrict travel by automobile.Cinhil said:No correction needed here, the Right to Travel is a constitutionally protected Right and has been upheld on numerous occasions where cities or states have sought to deprive citizens of monies.
I already answered your question a few posts above this. It is the two (2) posts below the post when you asked the first time. :type: :thumbsup:Ryan1971 said:If I don't have a permit, can I carry my gun in my car "utah loaded? And does it have to be concealed or visible in the vehicle? I remember reading something about this.
Thanks