Theft confrontation.

Please post your real life stories where carrying for self-defense has made a difference.

Theft confrontation.

Postby Libertyarmed » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:25 pm

So, last night I found out my neighbor's grandson stole some things out of our carport, (guessing he is about 30). Our neighbor(the grandma) told me he stole stuff. It wasn't lots, just some tools and some of my mom's groceries that she accidentally left out. (I manage and apt complex and asked my mom to move in to one of our apts so we could take care of her and have her close)

I walked outside today because I saw him smoking. I asked him if he stole my stuff, and he confessed, but then accused me of stealing his things. I Purposefully didn't carry my gun out because I didn't want it to escalate that far, and thought if he assaulted me, I be able to defend myself as I had a heavy flashlight with me, and I fought amateur Muay Thai for quite a few years in SoCa and have the missing brain cells and scars to regret it.

He was yelling at me and my wife and accusing me of stealing, while getting my stuff out of his car and returning it. I had to name the things before he would get them. I finally yelled, " cut the SH##. You don't have an ounce of proof that I stole ANYTHING from you, and dont even have a valid reason to accuse me... furthermore I don't steal, and Bi###, if I catch you in the act of stealing from me again you will be sorry. I will(I was going to say call the police and have them arrest your b#### a##.) he interrupted and said are you giving me terrorist threats?" I said loudly, "no, I will call the police b####!" I later said I would detain his b### A### by force if i saw him stealing until the police got there. He then threatened me and told me he would "plant me" if I tried to stop him and tried to get really close to me. when he did that I told him to "back off A##h###" "step back b####, don't take this where you will regret it"

My question is. according to Utah law, if I catch someone stealing out of my carport, am I allowed to subdue them while my wife calls the police? I don't expect lawyers, but just hoping for some one having the same experience and might know more than I do.
Also, is what he did burglary? theft? robbery? As far I I remember, robbery is forcible while I am present.

Before the critiques roll in, I understand I could have been more calm and not used foul language while confronting the thief.
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby DaKnife » Mon 17 Apr 2017 1:54 am

Under Utah law you are not allowed to use deadly force in defense of property. Stuff can be replaced, a life cannot. Utah's "Castle Doctrine" only pertains to the interior of your home (and your car if you are in it). Your carport, parked car, attached or detached sheds or trailers do not entail any right to defend with deadly force.

What you can do is be openly armed but do not draw or even touch or hint at the weapon until and unless threatened. If the individual does not desire to remain, you cannot hold him/her by use of deadly force, You can make a citizens arrest, but cannot pull your firearm to enforce it. Just snap their pic with your camera phone and you have the evidence needed for the police to arrest them at a later time. That isn't to say you can't use less lethal means (say Muay Thai holds) to restrain him, but be careful and as he could claim and press assault charges. In this case with his car full of your belongings I'd think his claims would be ignored unless you caused an actual injury.

Otherwise, yes if you are going to carry, you need to roll back the temper. You can't afford to lose control and aggravating a situation with language does not help one bit. When carrying you have the ability to ruin your life at the speed of a bullet, so you must step back from every situation mentally and remind your self that you have to keep cool. A phrase that we used to toss around frequently here is, "Every bullet has a Lawyer attached." It's up to you to avoid firing that Lawyer into your bank account as much as possible, until it becomes absolutely necessary.

(Not a Lawyer by any means).
SPOOOOOOON!!!

WARNING: This comment may contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm, in every other state it may increase intelligence and knowledge.
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby Libertyarmed » Mon 17 Apr 2017 3:26 am

Thank you daknife.

That is exactly why I left my carry weapon inside the house. I would never even think to shoot a person for stealing my crap. I thought if he did assault me for confronting him on his theft, I would defend myself with equal force. My wife could document the whole thing on her phone. Looking back on it, I should have called the police as soon as I saw him.
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby Luv10mm » Mon 17 Apr 2017 9:44 am

Libertyarmed wrote:Also, is what he did burglary? theft? robbery? As far I I remember, robbery is forcible while I am present.


From my understanding, this would fall under burglary/theft/larceny. If you weren't there when the guy took stuff, it wouldn't be robbery. Possibly burglary because he entered the car port to steal, and theft/larceny because he took property with no intention of giving it back. I'm not up on Utah's laws enough to say whether they would charge separately for burglary and theft. Technically, you can get charged for burglary without taking anything (caught with the hand in the cookie jar, but didn't get to take a cookie idea).

I'm surprised you confronted the guy. Definitely would have called the police myself, but I can understand how emotions would be high in such a scenario. Glad you came out of it unscathed.
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby D-FIN » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:39 pm

I would recommend and hidden or open security camera either permanent or temporary that you can catch him on. If you get evidence you know who he is get him arrested.
You can't win the sheep over to your side if your always showing them your fangs.

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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby Libertyarmed » Mon 17 Apr 2017 6:41 pm

Thank you again guys. I appreciate all the feedback.
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby AlanM » Tue 18 Apr 2017 7:17 am

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There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby morcey2 » Mon 24 Apr 2017 5:53 pm

Along with the security cameras, buy a couple of cheap motion activated toys. :D Like the dancing santa or singing bass and place them strategically around your carport. (BTW, I got so sick of the singing bass that we had going off at inopportune times times that I finally "disabled" it with a pick axe. I originally just took the batteries out of it, but my kids would refill it. I'm sure that I threw it away more than a couple of times, but it still kept showing up around the house. That's how it became pick-axe fodder.)

Matt
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby DaKnife » Thu 27 Apr 2017 3:58 am

morcey2 wrote:Along with the security cameras, buy a couple of cheap motion activated toys. :D Like the dancing santa or singing bass and place them strategically around your carport. (BTW, I got so sick of the singing bass that we had going off at inopportune times times that I finally "disabled" it with a pick axe. I originally just took the batteries out of it, but my kids would refill it. I'm sure that I threw it away more than a couple of times, but it still kept showing up around the house. That's how it became pick-axe fodder.)

Matt

:lol3: :lol3: :ROFL: :lol3: :lol3:

Note to self: need to determine Matt's address and send his kids a few dozen more Singing Bass's. :grinningjester:
SPOOOOOOON!!!

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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby morcey2 » Thu 27 Apr 2017 7:59 am

DaKnife wrote:
morcey2 wrote:Along with the security cameras, buy a couple of cheap motion activated toys. :D Like the dancing santa or singing bass and place them strategically around your carport. (BTW, I got so sick of the singing bass that we had going off at inopportune times times that I finally "disabled" it with a pick axe. I originally just took the batteries out of it, but my kids would refill it. I'm sure that I threw it away more than a couple of times, but it still kept showing up around the house. That's how it became pick-axe fodder.)

Matt

:lol3: :lol3: :ROFL: :lol3: :lol3:

Note to self: need to determine Matt's address and send his kids a few dozen more Singing Bass's. :grinningjester:


I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for laughs, I can tell you I don't have humor. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for singing bass suppliers like you. If you let my daughter not get a singing bass now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will make sure that you find dancing Santas when and where you least expect it. And they will not dance well. Like me. Kinda like this.... :dancing:

And you'd have to find my kid's addresses since we're empty-nesters now. :D
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Re: Theft confrontation.

Postby DaKnife » Fri 28 Apr 2017 4:14 am

Empty nesters eh? Time to equip the angelic Grandchildren (if there are any) with a nice selection of singing basses and other electronic stuffed animals.

:evilexcellent:
SPOOOOOOON!!!

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