I also know why I carry now.

Please post your real life stories where carrying for self-defense has made a difference.

Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Eddie_XD » Fri 24 Oct 2008 3:44 pm

the # i got is 801 793 3000 which is salt lake city PD # and from there if i'm in different city they'll forward me or do whatever they have to do. either way i'm glad everything turned out ok.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Car Knocker » Fri 24 Oct 2008 4:21 pm

Eddie, the current phone book shows the SLC Police non-emergency crime number to be 801-799-3000.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Eddie_XD » Fri 24 Oct 2008 4:34 pm

Car Knocker wrote:Eddie, the current phone book shows the SLC Police non-emergency crime number to be 801-799-3000.


Haven't called that # in over a year. I better update it.

Thx for the heads up. :thumbup:
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby mr_blove » Mon 27 Oct 2008 7:52 pm

TMG wrote:Regarding the 'Gun' comment. If you didnt See a gun, Dont EVER "Mention the word 'Gun'" in hopes of a faster response!! First, it will piss off the cops, and second, you've started the call off with a LIE, so everything you say will be questionable; you will have no credibility, and it’s likely the cops wont file any charges.


I belive what he is trying to say is that you the caller is a CCW holder and are carrying and also will protect yourself not that they have a gun, saying that is a crime(false report).
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby murph » Thu 30 Oct 2008 1:59 pm

Hey guys, about the 911 vs. non emergency number:

My wife used to be a 911 dispatcher for SL County and says it's not a problem to call 911 and even just asked to be forwarded to the local police dept if you don't already have the number. She says that it really isn't a problem to do that but just be mindful that other emergencies might be waiting behind you so try not to overuse the privelege.

Baisically, program the non emergency number to your hometown PD in your phone and even towns that you visit frequently but if for some reason you don't have it and want to reach police quickly just dial 911 and they will connect you to the local PD's dispatch.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby bane » Thu 30 Oct 2008 2:01 pm

murph wrote:Hey guys, about the 911 vs. non emergency number:

My wife used to be a 911 dispatcher for SL County and says it's not a problem to call 911 and even just asked to be forwarded to the local police dept if you don't already have the number. She says that it really isn't a problem to do that but just be mindful that other emergencies might be waiting behind you so try not to overuse the privelege.

Baisically, program the non emergency number to your hometown PD in your phone and even towns that you visit frequently but if for some reason you don't have it and want to reach police quickly just dial 911 and they will connect you to the local PD's dispatch.



Good to know -- thanks!
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Dustin WJ » Thu 30 Oct 2008 9:13 pm

scott.pete06 wrote:The three guys followed me out and started threatening me.


In what way were they threatening you?

scott.pete06 wrote: As I opened my door they were in front of my car, so I turned put my hand on my gun and told them, "come any closer and I'll shoot all three of you." I didn't draw, but the threat was enough.


Did you actually show them the gun?

scott.pete06 wrote:I debated calling dispatch but I decided since a gun wasn't drawn I didn't need to.


I definitely think it would have been wise to call the police.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby jaredbelch » Fri 31 Oct 2008 9:10 am

Great job on attempting to deescalate the situation.

I have the salt lake county dispatch number in my phone, it's 801-743-7000. FYI it is also recorded and timestamped so no worries there.

So I'm curious, I think I would have called dispatch, but I have a question for everyone. How would your conversation with dispatch go?
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby lockout » Fri 31 Oct 2008 11:15 am

i have been thinking the same thing jared..

"hello, police dispatch, how may i help you?"

"yes, three guys just threatened me physical and bodily harm. i was able to deescalate the situtation. I am a licensed concealed weapon carrier, i did not ever show or draw my weapon however i did tell them if they took one more step closer to me i would shoot all three of them"

what should be said and what shouldn't be said?
what is the best way to say it?
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby bane » Fri 31 Oct 2008 11:23 am

lockout wrote:i have been thinking the same thing jared..

"hello, police dispatch, how may i help you?"

"yes, three guys just threatened me physical and bodily harm. i was able to deescalate the situtation. I am a licensed concealed weapon carrier, i did not ever show or draw my weapon however i did tell them if they took one more step closer to me i would shoot all three of them"

what should be said and what shouldn't be said?
what is the best way to say it?



Although that's the very most straight-forward and perfectly honest report... I'm not sure I'd go quite that route; in this case I *DO* think it's a case of "the ends justify the means" sort of thing. To state "one more step closer and I would shoot all three of them" is likely to come across as "gunslinger-ish" to certain people including some of the responding LEO's and the DA that reviews it later... it's the sort of language, that though in the heat of the moment might seem perfectly appropriate (and c'mon, everyone makes word-choice mistakes in critical-timing situations) however in hindsight could be interpreted with a certain amount of bias.

If during the investigation you are asked for your *EXACT* wording then you might decide to provide the exact wording. But at the stage of the emergency phonecall I wouldn't state it that way; I would choose a more "PC" route and say something like "yes, three guys just... however I did tell them if they came any closer to me I would be interpret that as a threat against me and would be forced to resort to lethal self-defense." (or something similar, but you get my point)


ALWAYS choose your words very carefully. Be as PC as you can be. Then when the LEO's show up you aren't obliged to state exact wording before first contacting an attorney. Remember, even on the 911 call, your words can (and WILL) be used against you. Best to keep your tongue as cool as possible.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Taco » Fri 31 Oct 2008 8:29 pm

bane wrote:
lockout wrote:i have been thinking the same thing jared..

"hello, police dispatch, how may i help you?"

"yes, three guys just threatened me physical and bodily harm. i was able to deescalate the situtation. I am a licensed concealed weapon carrier, i did not ever show or draw my weapon however i did tell them if they took one more step closer to me i would shoot all three of them"

what should be said and what shouldn't be said?
what is the best way to say it?



Although that's the very most straight-forward and perfectly honest report... I'm not sure I'd go quite that route; in this case I *DO* think it's a case of "the ends justify the means" sort of thing. To state "one more step closer and I would shoot all three of them" is likely to come across as "gunslinger-ish" to certain people including some of the responding LEO's and the DA that reviews it later... it's the sort of language, that though in the heat of the moment might seem perfectly appropriate (and c'mon, everyone makes word-choice mistakes in critical-timing situations) however in hindsight could be interpreted with a certain amount of bias.

If during the investigation you are asked for your *EXACT* wording then you might decide to provide the exact wording. But at the stage of the emergency phonecall I wouldn't state it that way; I would choose a more "PC" route and say something like "yes, three guys just... however I did tell them if they came any closer to me I would be interpret that as a threat against me and would be forced to resort to lethal self-defense." (or something similar, but you get my point)


ALWAYS choose your words very carefully. Be as PC as you can be. Then when the LEO's show up you aren't obliged to state exact wording before first contacting an attorney. Remember, even on the 911 call, your words can (and WILL) be used against you. Best to keep your tongue as cool as possible.


I agree.
You should report that THEY threatened you, not that YOU threatened them. I'd wait to see if an actual LEO was dispatched to talk to me before identifying myself as a CCW holder, and I wouldn't tell the LEO I had mentioned anything specifically about shooting anybody until I'd consulted an attorney. The BGs will lie against you one way or the other if caught, and you can bet they'll try to convince the LEO that you pointed an entire arsenal at them.

Also, the 911 discussion is interesting. I have called the police three times in the past 4 years to report non-emergency incidents, and each time I was transferred to 911 anyway.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Queen Kat » Sat 01 Nov 2008 1:18 am

Scott, I'm so glad you are safe. I hate to think of how ugly things could have gotten if you weren't carrying. There are a lot of crazy people out there! I'm glad you were being responsible for your own safety! Good on you! :crown:
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby bane » Sat 01 Nov 2008 11:13 am

Queen Kat wrote:Scott, I'm so glad you are safe. I hate to think of how ugly things could have gotten if you weren't carrying. There are a lot of crazy people out there! I'm glad you were being responsible for your own safety! Good on you! :crown:



:welcome: (back) -- missed seeing you around here! :)
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby divegeek » Sat 01 Nov 2008 11:22 am

Taco wrote:You should report that THEY threatened you, not that YOU threatened them. I'd wait to see if an actual LEO was dispatched to talk to me before identifying myself as a CCW holder, and I wouldn't tell the LEO I had mentioned anything specifically about shooting anybody until I'd consulted an attorney. The BGs will lie against you one way or the other if caught, and you can bet they'll try to convince the LEO that you pointed an entire arsenal at them.

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to completely omit your response to their threat. It may give you the appearance of trying to hide something.

Per Utah law, you can't be charged with assault for a mere verbal threat. The threat has to be accompanied by demonstration of force (e.g. showing your gun) for it to become a crime. Three of them walking toward you with threatening looks, however, CAN be interpreted as assault even if they don't say anything, because they are both threatening and demonstrating force with their bodies.

I think I'd be as straight as possible about the incident, but emphasizing their threat and my fear. Also, I think I'd make it clear that I'm accusing them of breaking the law -- get my licks in first. Something like:

Three guys just threatened me with physical harm. They approached me aggressively and threatened me verbally. I was afraid for my life, so I threatened to use my lawfully-carried firearm to stop them. I did not touch or show my weapon and my verbal warning was enough to convince them to back off. I don't know who they are, but I would like to file a complaint against them and press charges for assault if they can be identified.

I prefer "use my firearm to stop them" over "resort to lethal self-defense" because I don't like using the word "lethal".

Another thought I have is that if there were an opportunity, I'd like to threaten them at the same time I tell the 911 operator. That is, when they start approaching me use my left hand to grab my cellphone and hit the 911 speed-dial button (which I can do without looking at the phone). Left hand, of course, to keep my right hand free in case I need to draw.

Then, I'd SHOUT:

They're gonna kill me unless I shoot! Please send an officer to arrest them for assault!


I've put a lot of thought into the above. It's intended to send messages to four different audiences:

First, the bad guys. The first sentence tells them that I think they're going to kill me and I've got a gun. Since they probably aren't planning to kill me, the first part should make them defensive, and the two parts together should make them scared. That's the main message I want them to get, so it's the first thing out of my mouth, and uses as few words as possible. The next sentence tells them that I'm calling the police and want to press charges against them.

Second, the 911 operator. The 911 operator should get that I'm in danger and that police should be dispatched immediately. Since I leave my phone's GPS turned on all the time, they should have a pretty good fix on my location. These two sentences will leave the 911 operator with a ton of questions about who I am, who they are, what's going on, why I have a gun, etc. I can answer all of those questions, after the BGs have decided on their move.

Third, any witnesses. The first sentence establishes that I'm RESPONDING to a threat, not initiating it, and the second establishes that I'm requesting law enforcement to help me, which suggests that I'm not doing anything wrong.

Fourth, the DA. The main thing I need to do to protect myself from prosecution in case I do need to shoot is establish that I'm afraid for my life, and the first three words do that. Assuming the first two sentences cause them to back off, the very next thing out of my mouth to the 911 operator would be "I haven't displayed or touched my lawfully-carried firearm", to establish that I'm also not guilty of assault. After that, I'd start answering the operator's questions.

More than likely, they aren't really planning to kill me, so my claim that they are should make them hesitate, and the threat of shooting them should stop them cold. The threat of arrest would probably convince them to clear out, ASAP, but at the very least it should convince them to immediately start trying to prove that they had no intention of hurting me. That should give me time to answer the 911 operator's questions about location, my identity, my gun, etc. I might refuse to identify myself to the operator while the bad guys can still hear me, though. No point in making it easy for them to track me down later.

There are some downsides to the approach. In particular, it would be VERY important not to allow the 911 operator or juggling the phone to distract me from the situation at hand. The upside, though, is that there is no possible way they could get their report in before I did, and I would have been the one asking for law enforcement intervention to prevent a bad situation. Also, if I had to drop the phone and shoot to defend myself, 911 would have an audio recording of the whole incident, to help counter any biased eyewitness reports from the aggressors' friends (like the girlfriend).

Another possibility I've considered is using my phone's camera to take pictures and/or video of them (WHILE calling 911). That could backfire, though, since they might decide they need to destroy my phone to protect themselves. Also, while I can dial 911 without looking at the phone, I have to look at it to take pictures.

Hmm, come to think of it, since many cellphones can now stream video, it would be really cool if calling 911 would automatically turn on the camera and stream the video to 911 along with the call. Grabbing the phone would be of no value to the BGs.
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Re: I also know why I carry now.

Postby Queen Kat » Sun 02 Nov 2008 10:39 pm

bane wrote:
Queen Kat wrote:Scott, I'm so glad you are safe. I hate to think of how ugly things could have gotten if you weren't carrying. There are a lot of crazy people out there! I'm glad you were being responsible for your own safety! Good on you! :crown:



:welcome: (back) -- missed seeing you around here! :)


Thanks! :oops: I'm glad I've freed up sometime for UCC again! I was having some serious withdrawls! :shock:
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