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Laws on Knives in Utah ???

41K views 66 replies 29 participants last post by  Korben88 
#1 ·
What are the Specifics when it comes to Knives etc to carry on a Person. In the State of Utah we have a Concealed Firearms Permit but does this "Permit" also cover Knives of Greater lengths than a "pocket-knife"???

Anyone knows anything???
 
#27 ·
Jeff Johnson said:
althor said:
...
I just ran across the previous post and wanted to add something.

You may carry and possess a sawed-off shotgun with the proper tax paid transfer ($5.00), what 76-10-504(2) says is that you may not conceal it.
Are you talking about the federal tax stamp (from the NFA of 1934) that you must pay in order to own a Class III weapon? That's $200, not $5.

Merely possessing a sawed-off shotgun is still illegal unless you pay for the tax stamp and get a Class III license.
A $200 tax stamp is required for all NFA items except those classified as AOW (Any Other Weapon). These include things like short barrel shotguns (sawed-off), pen guns, cane guns and other 'gadget guns' that don't really resemble normal guns, smooth bore pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, etc... AOWs only require a $5.00 tax stamp.

Also, after paying the tax and getting the approved and stamped form what you basically have is a tax document, not a license or a permit. No permit is required in Utah, just the stamp.
 
#28 ·
Hunter said:
apollosmith said:
Hunter said:
It comes back to the the part of 76-1-601 which defines a "Dangerous Weapon" (5) "Dangerous weapon" means:
(a) any item capable of causing death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) a facsimile or representation of the item; and:
(i) the actor's use or apparent intended use of the item leads the victim to reasonably believe the item is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury;

Hope this makes sense and answers more questions than it casues.
That does clarify a bit. The thing is, there is no place in Utah law that says you can't carry a dangerous weapon that is NOT concealed. In other words, I can legally carry a sword around town or a 14" hunting knife or an unloaded pistol or nunchuks, etc. without any legal ramifications. Now if I conceal this weapon or carry it in schools or use it to threaten someone, etc., I'm breaking the law. But there's no place that says I can't carry it in public in a non-concealed way. Or at least I haven't found anything stating this.
Depending on the circumstances involved, you may not be arrested for a Weapons Violation, but you could still be arrested for Disorderly Conduct.

76-9-102. Disorderly conduct.
(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
(a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose; or
(b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
(ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
(iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
(iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
(2) "Public place," for the purpose of this section, means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes but is not limited to streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
(3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.
WRONG.

When there is NO law AGAINST it the above code is not valid. DISORDERLY CONDUCT is the Behavior and NOT the fact that you carry a Weapon LAWFULLY.

CONDUCT yourself while carrying a Weapon and you will NOT have a problem
 
#29 ·
Tarzan1888 said:
Eukatae said:
I guess this means one could carry automatic knives legally?
If memory serves automatics can be owned and carried if not concealed.
If you mean "Switch Blade" or "Stellito", then I think NOT.

Tarzan
According to my CCW class instructor atomatic knifes are legal to be carried while being concealed and sold in Utah. He had quite a few of them to show the class and so did a few people at the range. I'll dig through the handouts I got and find the laws he quoted.
 
G
#30 ·
Ty said:
Tarzan1888 said:
Eukatae said:
I guess this means one could carry automatic knives legally?
If memory serves automatics can be owned and carried if not concealed.
If you mean "Switch Blade" or "Stellito", then I think NOT.

Tarzan
According to my CCW class instructor atomatic knifes are legal to be carried while being concealed and sold in Utah. He had quite a few of them to show the class and so did a few people at the range. I'll dig through the handouts I got and find the laws he quoted.
That would be greatly appreciated. I thought that was the case but I was so readily shot down when I posed the question I assumed it had already been well covered in another venue by the shooter.
 
#31 ·
I don't know about the laws but I carry one anyways. I don't carry anything bigger then the palm of my hand, that is the general rule I've always lived by. I carry it in my left pocket with the clip hanging out so people know it is there if they are looking for it. I don't carry on my belt because I'm afraid that it will slip out.
 
#32 ·
Outsider said:
I don't know about the laws but I carry one anyways. I don't carry anything bigger then the palm of my hand, that is the general rule I've always lived by. I carry it in my left pocket with the clip hanging out so people know it is there if they are looking for it. I don't carry on my belt because I'm afraid that it will slip out.
It depends on the specifics, but knives are generally considered "dangerous weapons" and so can't be carried concealed. If you have a CFP, you are exempted from the restriction on carrying concealed weapons of any sort, so you can conceal a knife.
 
#35 ·
I too have wondered about automatic knives in Utah. I found the following, but I don't know about the accuracy of their statement. See the table of state laws on automatic knives at this link. Found site on a google search.

http://www.rubberdoctor.com/POLICY%20IN ... STATES.htm

BladeHQ is an online store that sells automatic knives and they are located in Lehi, UT. I emailed them with the question and I'll summarize what I learn. http://www.bladehq.com/cat--Contact-Us--95
 
#38 ·
This is what Jacob at http://BladeHQ.com wrote back to me in email:

"It is legal to carry and own, unconcealed (i.e. pocket clip must show), an
automatic knife in Utah. I do not know if a CFP allows you to carry a knife
concealed. We do not require any sort of military I.D. to purchase. You are
welcome to come to our Lehi store and handle the knives."

Blade HQ
628 E. State St. # 4
Lehi, UT 84043

His response coincides with much of what I found on the internet, except he clarified what unconcealed means in regard to these knives.
Can anyone verify that the pocket clip showing means the knife is unconcealed? What if you sit down and your shirt covers the clip?

Now someone needs to do more research to see about whether or not a CFP holder can carry one of these concealed. Someone wrote an eBay guide that indicates their opinion is that it is ok. http://reviews.ebay.com/Quick-Refer...e-Switchblade-Laws_W0QQugidZ10000000007130677

The federal laws around automatic knives can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade. One of the laws "prohibits possession on Federal lands, Indian reservations, military bases, District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and other protectorates." Be careful in Utah if you end up getting one of these knives because there is lots of acerage the federal government owns that is scattered around Utah, so check a detailed map when you leave the cities and towns just to be sure you don't accidentaly carry an auto knife on some plot of remote federal land 50 miles from civilization - or even driving to your your favorite fishing/hunting/outdoor recreation spot.

"The Federal Government owns nearly 650 million acres of land - almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. Federally-owned and managed public lands include National Parks, National Forests, and National Wildlife Refuges." This .gov website has very basic maps showing federal lands and indian reservations state by sate to give you a general idea for where you can't carry your auto knife. http://www.nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html#list

Use this link to see a high resolution map of Utah showing federal lands and indian reservations. http://www.nationalatlas.gov/printable/images/pdf/fedlands/ut.pdf
 
#39 ·
Since there are no auto knives allowed on federal land, I was wondering about BLM land, and yes, I think that BLM land would fit into that category as well. Anyone agree or disagree? And don't forget the United States Post Office and USPS parking lot. Here are some links that tell more about public lands in utah and there are a lot more kinds of public lands than I realized. Perhaps we can find a land expert who can help us learn which of the not obviously Federal public lands really are Federal lands. But it sure would be much easier to just use an assisted opening knife all of the time because 70% of the land in Utah is BLM land or National Forest land.

Different types of public lands:
Bureau of Land Management Lands
National Parks & Monuments
National Forests & Monuments
National Forests and Grasslands
National Wildlife Refuges
Lakes: Bureau of Reclamation
Lakes: U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Military Reservations
State Parks, Monuments and Other Lands (State lands are ok. Which “Other Lands” might be Federal lands?)
Wilderness Areas
Wild & Scenic Rivers
Scenic and Back Country Byways
National Trails
NOAA Marine Reserves & Estuaries (None in Utah. landlocked)

The links about public lands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_landhttp://www.publiclands.org/explore/...Torg=7e693aa6264fb072766b5129504479dc#option4(bottom of page under "Select Public Lands")

Other things I've found:
The Automatic Knife Association: http://members.aol.com/akaswitchblades/
Some legal cases about knives: http://www.thehighroad.org/library/blades/knifelaws.html
Knife ownership advocacy organization similar to the NRA: http://www.kniferights.org/

After we get everything figured out we should start a new thread that has one post that cuts to the chase regarding the legal issues of automatic knives and non-automatic knives in Utah - by directing people to the legislative code and administrative code references and summarizing what all of that means and the implications while mentioning we are not lawyers.
 
G
#41 ·
A research project about the contents of your pocket. Thanks, but, many manuals are just as fast, some are faster! Emerson knives, Emerson licensed by spyderco, cold steels AK47 and TI lites all open manually in the conventional or on the edge of your pocket as you draw it. I have a 6 inch ti-lite that I have used as a machete, a pocket knife and as a pointer for a few classes, yes it is that big.
 
#42 ·
I just called the number on my Utah CFP(801) 965-4445 and asked about auto knifes. She said that the permit is a CFP and does not include concealed knifes as they aren't firearms. The clip or knife has to be showing or visible if it is an automatic knife. The CFP won't help you if you're caught concealing it. I'm sure a police officer will correct you on the issue especially if you have a CFP.
 
#46 ·
The highlighted portion of the law quoted immediately below specifies exactly what laws the CFP exempts the holder from observing:
53-5-704. Bureau duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
(1) (a) The bureau shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless the bureau finds proof that the applicant does not meet the qualifications set forth in Subsection (2).
(b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).
....
The following law, mentioned in the quote above that CFP holders are exempt from observing, specifies a "concealed dangerous weapon".
76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
Characteristics of "dangerous weapons" and "concealed dangerous weapons" are listed below:
76-10-501. Definitions.
(3) (a) "Concealed dangerous weapon" means a dangerous weapon that is:
(i) covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence; and
(ii) readily accessible for immediate use.

(6) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
(b) The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or another item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
(i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
(ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
(iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
(iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.
Clearly, an auto knife, among other tools, fits the bill as a dangerous weapon, concealed or not, that a CFP holder is allowed to carry because the CFP holder is exempt from those portions of the above laws that prohibit possession/carry of those dangerous items, just as 76-10-505 exempts the CFP holder from the prohibition against carrying a loaded firearm.

Since most of Utah's laws are prohibitive rather than permissive, anything that is not specifically prohibited is allowed.
 
#47 ·
Sorry to ressurect a older thread but I wanted to bump this.

FYI I was at sportsmans the other day and I really do love there auto knifes very expensive but they will not sell them to you unless you have a military ID or are in LE. Which seems silly to me expecially after reading how that other store in utah will.

That and someone mentioned posting a new thread that cuts through the BS and gives you the skinny on the law about auto and none auto knives in one clear cut post. Perhaps even a sticky would be good since we have a knives forum in a UCC enviroment.

Cheers
 
#48 ·
Yeah, I was in there the other day and thought 'how stupid is it that I can buy and conceal a firearm almost anywhere in the state, but I can't buy a knife that has an auto open feature :disgusted:
 
#49 ·
Some of the smaller knife shops will sell them. There's one in Ogden that will, but not to just anybody, he has to get to know you first... :roll:

Isn't there a member here that sells knives? Can he get them ordered in?
 
#50 ·
That's funny, you can find lots of them during the gun shows so long as you find the right dealer. I don't carry any but I knw there are dealers there who do. You may want to check and see if Joe's Knives and Swords has any. I think this is his contact info;
4152 Carriage Sq
Salt Lake City, UT 84119
(801) 982-0553
 
#51 ·
Jesse 8 said:
Yeah, I was in there the other day and thought 'how stupid is it that I can buy and conceal a firearm almost anywhere in the state, but I can't buy a knife that has an auto open feature :disgusted:
And that you actually can buy a knife with an auto open feature, just not at Sportsman's.
 
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