Yesterday afternoon I had an itch to check out a few guns so I decided I would make the trip down to Lehi and see what Cabela's had to offer. Naturally I had to have my best friend come with. He had just bought his first handgun and hadn't really had much experience open carrying so I assumed that Cabela's would be a great place to spend some time and shop around. We both walked in, openly carrying and had absolutely no issues, weird looks, anything. He hasn't done it for long but he isn't stupid and he has seen me do it lots of times so he acts natural, doesn't touch his gun, etc. Everything is smooth as butter and it is as if we aren't armed at all. No employees look at us, no customers. No one cares, as usual, and as it should be.
The first issue happens at the gun counter. We both grab a number and his is first and soon called. My friend asks if he can look at some Ruger Vaqueros. The younger guy behind the counter asks if he is 21. My friend is 20 and relays this fact to the clerk. The guy said somewhat hesitantly that he couldn't let him look at the guns unless he was 21. My friend and I both kind of smile and furrow our brows in disbelief :raisedbrow: . We are quite certain this guy noticed us both carrying, but I guess policy is policy. Despite this, I have been to many, many shops before I was 21 and was able to look at all the handguns I wanted. My friend has also done the same. I guess big box outfitters don't see things to be the same. We decide not to make a point to argue with him so he called the next number, mine. He asked me if I was 21, which I am, hesitated for a second, and then let me see the guns I wanted to see. The rest of the experience at the counter was great. I was there to look at the CZ 75, for those of you wondering.
That was fairly early on in the excursion. It's a big store with a lot to see and a lot to do. We were there for just shy of two hours. Debating on rifle calibers, sorting through all the ammo, and checking out the wildlife displays. When we were about on our way out we decided to stop by their kind of used gun "museum". It's that room in the north-west corner of the store, everything is in a display case. They have some super hot deals there and we wanted to check them out. As we are walking in there is an employee walking out. He is an older gentleman, probably about 70. I see that he is eyeing us and I give him a nod as we make eye contact, he returns the nod. We walk past him when I hear his really silly, really predictable question. "Is that loaded?" I turn around and inform him that it is "Utah unloaded" and there is nothing in the chamber. He then proceeds to tell me that I need to take the magazine out and put it in my pocket :huh: . I smile because that was not something I expected to be told to do. Knowing that this isn't any kind of law, I ask him if this is their policy. He says that it is and that you must be 21 to "have" a handgun. I correct him and tell him that, while I am 21 and my friend is 20, we are both well within the law to have our handguns on our hips. He did not enjoy hearing that at all and kind of wanders off somewhere, fuming :evil:.
My friend and I continue to browse the room, magazines in our pockets :lol2: , when he comes back out again to make his (painfully incorrect and misguided) point. He essentially repeats himself, telling me that you must be 21 to possess a handgun. At this point I am getting frustrated, for obvious reasons. I correct him again. "It's the law", he says. I smile as I say, "Well, if that's the law I'd really love for you to show me because I know I can show you otherwise." He tells me that he can show me and I follow him to the corner of the room where there is this small office I had not noticed before. I head toward the room. I was not happy now, and I did not look back to see if my friend followed along. I believe he stood in the doorway for a time before finding the scene too frustrating and idiotic to observe.
The room was modest, with a desk and small bookshelf. Sitting behind the desk was a preoccupied and slightly disgruntled gentleman in his 40's. He was talking to another older gentleman who was standing in front of the desk. They were having a calm, cool conversation about something, and as my captor lead the way in, I really felt like he broke any harmony that may have existed in that room. He states his case to the manager, who really looks like he couldn't care less. The manager digs within a drawer of his desk and pulls out a yellow pamphlet with our state's emblem on it. I open the pamphlet and on the inside of the cover I see it in all of it's glory. I read 76-10-509 aloud, smiling, triumphant, and then I look at the other occupants of the room. My personal policeman :wink: looks at me as if I had just popped out of the floor and read The Nine Satanic Statements. I hand the pamphlet back to the manager.
As much as I wish I could say I was surprised when this happened, I wasn't. The older guy who brought me in proceeded to repeat himself. "You hafta be 21 to have a handgun." It was as if you told him this was all a dream and he just absolutely refused to agree to it. I tilted my head to the side and gave him an apprehensive look. The manager spoke, "No, it says here that you only need to be 18, that is what he just read." The older man persisted, "Well that's not how Jim and me read it!" The manager read the relevant section aloud, leaving his finger lingering near it as he handed it to the older man.
This is when I realized what was going on, where I was, and what was happening. Boy, was I mad. I, a law abiding, peaceful citizen and CUSTOMER had been taken into a back office like an elementary student who had been caught urinating on the walls in the bathroom. This is also when I decided to really speak my mind. "This is how you treat all of your customers?", I asked the manager. He looked at me blankly and he kept his attention mostly toward the older man as he fumbled with the pamphlet and tried to make sense of what had just slapped him in the face (the truth). "You know," I continued, "We have been here for hours. We came here to shop and we haven't bothered anyone. We are well within the law and you are treating us like this. I've been taken into some back room to be reprimanded for following the law. I have taken a class and received certification for the Utah CCP and I'm being told I'm wrong about something I know quite intimately?" When I get angry my voice gets quiet, and if the room had not been so isolated I can imagine that my words would have been nearly inaudible. "I am not a criminal and yet I am being treated like one."
The manager was very flat and agreed that I was right and the law said 18 years, not 21, although that was irrelevant since I was 21 anyway. I sensed no empathy from this man. I do not believe he could have been apologetic enough unless he devoted a significant amount of effort, something he obviously had no intention of doing. He did say "I apologize" but that really meant nothing to me at the moment. I then decided to get to the heart of the issue. "The issue is obviously training. You need to train your employees better." The older man said "Training, huh?" I seriously laughed that he would even question that :ROFL: . "Yeah, haha, obviously you need to be trained. You don't know the law and you treat customers like this just because you think that you have some kind of authority? What gives you the right? Nothing." The old man just glared at me. I decided to wrap it up and get out of Dodge, I'd had enough. "I shop here a lot and so do many people I know. People are going to hear about this and I don't expect you'll get much of my business anymore." The manager apologized again, but he obviously didn't care or he might have put some degree of effort into his apology. Feeling completely incredulous at all of this, "You need training." were the last words I said to the older guy just before I turned around and walked out.
My friend and I laughed and joked about the experience for the rest of the evening as we went to a few other places and then out for dinner. This had been his first real day of open carrying and he took the whole thing really well. He actually expressed that he kind of enjoyed it because he was able to see how ignorant people can be and how knowledge is definitely power when it comes open carry confrontations. We stopped at Wal-Mart to buy some of the things we had originally intended on buying at Cabela's. There were dozens more people there and many, many more employees. No one said a single thing as we gave our money to a business that respects our rights. atriot:
The first issue happens at the gun counter. We both grab a number and his is first and soon called. My friend asks if he can look at some Ruger Vaqueros. The younger guy behind the counter asks if he is 21. My friend is 20 and relays this fact to the clerk. The guy said somewhat hesitantly that he couldn't let him look at the guns unless he was 21. My friend and I both kind of smile and furrow our brows in disbelief :raisedbrow: . We are quite certain this guy noticed us both carrying, but I guess policy is policy. Despite this, I have been to many, many shops before I was 21 and was able to look at all the handguns I wanted. My friend has also done the same. I guess big box outfitters don't see things to be the same. We decide not to make a point to argue with him so he called the next number, mine. He asked me if I was 21, which I am, hesitated for a second, and then let me see the guns I wanted to see. The rest of the experience at the counter was great. I was there to look at the CZ 75, for those of you wondering.
That was fairly early on in the excursion. It's a big store with a lot to see and a lot to do. We were there for just shy of two hours. Debating on rifle calibers, sorting through all the ammo, and checking out the wildlife displays. When we were about on our way out we decided to stop by their kind of used gun "museum". It's that room in the north-west corner of the store, everything is in a display case. They have some super hot deals there and we wanted to check them out. As we are walking in there is an employee walking out. He is an older gentleman, probably about 70. I see that he is eyeing us and I give him a nod as we make eye contact, he returns the nod. We walk past him when I hear his really silly, really predictable question. "Is that loaded?" I turn around and inform him that it is "Utah unloaded" and there is nothing in the chamber. He then proceeds to tell me that I need to take the magazine out and put it in my pocket :huh: . I smile because that was not something I expected to be told to do. Knowing that this isn't any kind of law, I ask him if this is their policy. He says that it is and that you must be 21 to "have" a handgun. I correct him and tell him that, while I am 21 and my friend is 20, we are both well within the law to have our handguns on our hips. He did not enjoy hearing that at all and kind of wanders off somewhere, fuming :evil:.
My friend and I continue to browse the room, magazines in our pockets :lol2: , when he comes back out again to make his (painfully incorrect and misguided) point. He essentially repeats himself, telling me that you must be 21 to possess a handgun. At this point I am getting frustrated, for obvious reasons. I correct him again. "It's the law", he says. I smile as I say, "Well, if that's the law I'd really love for you to show me because I know I can show you otherwise." He tells me that he can show me and I follow him to the corner of the room where there is this small office I had not noticed before. I head toward the room. I was not happy now, and I did not look back to see if my friend followed along. I believe he stood in the doorway for a time before finding the scene too frustrating and idiotic to observe.
The room was modest, with a desk and small bookshelf. Sitting behind the desk was a preoccupied and slightly disgruntled gentleman in his 40's. He was talking to another older gentleman who was standing in front of the desk. They were having a calm, cool conversation about something, and as my captor lead the way in, I really felt like he broke any harmony that may have existed in that room. He states his case to the manager, who really looks like he couldn't care less. The manager digs within a drawer of his desk and pulls out a yellow pamphlet with our state's emblem on it. I open the pamphlet and on the inside of the cover I see it in all of it's glory. I read 76-10-509 aloud, smiling, triumphant, and then I look at the other occupants of the room. My personal policeman :wink: looks at me as if I had just popped out of the floor and read The Nine Satanic Statements. I hand the pamphlet back to the manager.
As much as I wish I could say I was surprised when this happened, I wasn't. The older guy who brought me in proceeded to repeat himself. "You hafta be 21 to have a handgun." It was as if you told him this was all a dream and he just absolutely refused to agree to it. I tilted my head to the side and gave him an apprehensive look. The manager spoke, "No, it says here that you only need to be 18, that is what he just read." The older man persisted, "Well that's not how Jim and me read it!" The manager read the relevant section aloud, leaving his finger lingering near it as he handed it to the older man.
This is when I realized what was going on, where I was, and what was happening. Boy, was I mad. I, a law abiding, peaceful citizen and CUSTOMER had been taken into a back office like an elementary student who had been caught urinating on the walls in the bathroom. This is also when I decided to really speak my mind. "This is how you treat all of your customers?", I asked the manager. He looked at me blankly and he kept his attention mostly toward the older man as he fumbled with the pamphlet and tried to make sense of what had just slapped him in the face (the truth). "You know," I continued, "We have been here for hours. We came here to shop and we haven't bothered anyone. We are well within the law and you are treating us like this. I've been taken into some back room to be reprimanded for following the law. I have taken a class and received certification for the Utah CCP and I'm being told I'm wrong about something I know quite intimately?" When I get angry my voice gets quiet, and if the room had not been so isolated I can imagine that my words would have been nearly inaudible. "I am not a criminal and yet I am being treated like one."
The manager was very flat and agreed that I was right and the law said 18 years, not 21, although that was irrelevant since I was 21 anyway. I sensed no empathy from this man. I do not believe he could have been apologetic enough unless he devoted a significant amount of effort, something he obviously had no intention of doing. He did say "I apologize" but that really meant nothing to me at the moment. I then decided to get to the heart of the issue. "The issue is obviously training. You need to train your employees better." The older man said "Training, huh?" I seriously laughed that he would even question that :ROFL: . "Yeah, haha, obviously you need to be trained. You don't know the law and you treat customers like this just because you think that you have some kind of authority? What gives you the right? Nothing." The old man just glared at me. I decided to wrap it up and get out of Dodge, I'd had enough. "I shop here a lot and so do many people I know. People are going to hear about this and I don't expect you'll get much of my business anymore." The manager apologized again, but he obviously didn't care or he might have put some degree of effort into his apology. Feeling completely incredulous at all of this, "You need training." were the last words I said to the older guy just before I turned around and walked out.
My friend and I laughed and joked about the experience for the rest of the evening as we went to a few other places and then out for dinner. This had been his first real day of open carrying and he took the whole thing really well. He actually expressed that he kind of enjoyed it because he was able to see how ignorant people can be and how knowledge is definitely power when it comes open carry confrontations. We stopped at Wal-Mart to buy some of the things we had originally intended on buying at Cabela's. There were dozens more people there and many, many more employees. No one said a single thing as we gave our money to a business that respects our rights. atriot: