Anybody carry at work?

6194 Views 35 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Yoda, Mar 3, 2008

CR500AF

Discussion Starter · Feb 27, 2008

I know we can't mention business names etc. But I worked in the operating room for 9 1/2 years owned by one of the largest HMO's in Utah.. .. Not to name names. This company had a strict law that we as employees were not to carry or bring concealed weapons to the work place, or face disciplinary action including termintation. I now work for a very large Credit Union here in the state of Utah. I have been here since my old hospital closed due to a new Giant hospital being built on 5300 s. State street. Anyhow during employee orientation I was given an employee handbook from the Credit Union where I now work. This is what it says about "Use and Posession of weapons" I will write it exactly how it is written in the handbook:

"Employee and member safety and security are important to us. Therefore, no employee may posess any deadly weapon on Credit Union premises, including in any vehicle in the parking lot. Exceptions to this would include authorized security personnel; law enforcement officers and concealed weapon permit holders.

Employees who possess a concealed firearm permit must present the permit to Human Resources and their immediate supervisor, prior to bringing the firearm on Credit Union premises. All changes to the status of the permit must also be submitted to Human Resources and their immediate supervisor. They must also abide by these requests:

1. The firearm must be concealed at all times, even when removing a coat, vest, or bending over or reaching.

2. Do NOT inform co-workers, members, visitors or vendors that you are carrying a firearm.

3. Do NOT present or display a firearm or engage a suspected or known person in the act of committing a crime on Credit Union property, i.e., robbery. The only exception to this is if you have reason to believe that should you not act or respond with your firearm, immediate great bodily injury or death will be likely committed against yourself or another third party. This action is dependent upon your confidence in having the skills and accuracy to engage a suspect without causing injury or death to innocent bystanders."
So ever since I have been working at this Credit Union I have exercised my right to carry daily at work, and I considerate an added bonuse to working where I do!

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Car Knocker

· #2 · Feb 27, 2008

Just out of curiosity, what were the reactions when you presented your CFP to HR and your Supervisor?

Although I'm retired now, the nature of the industry I was in put many of the facilities in really unsavory parts of town and it wasn't totally unknown for employees to be assaulted and/or robbed at knife- or gun-point. I took appropriate measures, which included the carrying of adequate self-defense tools, to help assure my safety while at work.

xmirage2kx

· #3 · Feb 27, 2008

Nice, wish that went over with my work. They told me that even if this car carry bill passes I will be fired if they find I have a gun in my car on site, and that it would take a lawyer to change that.

CR500AF

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 27, 2008

When I went to Human Resources the lady working there was very professional about it. She closed the office door and took my permit and made a copy of it and put it in a file. She then told me to never tell any co-workers that I carry, she said that if there was a robbery that it may in danger me if co-workers knew I had a gun because they may run to me or bring attention to me that could possibly become deadly. My supervisor didn't even care, he isn't a gun guy, but he didn't have any problem with me having a permit.

NotSoSimple

· #5 · Feb 27, 2008

I dont carry (No CFP yet) but I will. Spoke to my supervisor and she asked anonymously since there is nothing in the policies and procedures about it. She said she has no problems with me carrying and it shouldnt be a big deal as long as I am a CFP holder.

I also looked into the policies of the land owners of the business park and there is not even a word about it.

I see it as a perk. Helps that my immediate supervisor and 2 other guys were in Utah Gaurd and our HR rep was in the Army.

doconix

· #6 · Feb 27, 2008

Impressive. Isn't the wording quite reflective of what concealed carry is all about anyway? We aren't there to enforce the law. The only time the firearm comes out is when life is in danger. It's self-protection. That's pretty well represented in the wording of your document.

heavykevy

· #7 · Feb 27, 2008

Aside from the requirement to show your permit to the HR department that is a very well-written policy IMHO. I carry at work nearly daily as well; I think that I have mentioned it before, but when I began my current employment the handbook also prohibited weapons (although to mention of CC). During the normal course of updating the handbook, I submitted a request to change the handbook from prohibiting weapons to outlining ramifications of assaulting or attacking another. As a result, management approved the change and I am confident that carrying isn't violating company policy or having a shotgun in my vehicle for some post-work hunting won't get me fired.

I am sorry for you xmirage2kx; personally, if I were you I would keep my eye out for a better employer. An employer who is willing to blatantly ignore a law on allowing you to store a firearm in your vehicle (unfortunately this bill looks dead) who knows what other laws they are willing to break for their personal agenda! Maybe they support illegal immigration so they hire illegals or think that taxes aren't constitutional so they aren't paying payroll taxes.

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bane

· #8 · Feb 27, 2008

xmirage2kx said:
Nice, wish that went over with my work. They told me that even if this car carry bill passes I will be fired if they find I have a gun in my car on site, and that it would take a lawyer to change that.

Yeah, but that will be pretty easy once this has become law. A simple phone call to the Dept. of Labor and the State Atty Gen. will quickly get gov't and lawyers on your side that will most likely result in a judgement in your favor. In the meantime the Dept. of Labor will see to it that you collect unemployment against your employer's fund. And once you get a judgement against them your job will have to be restored and back-pay given to you. If they don't, it's off to calling Dept. of Labor again.

If this becomes law, any company choosing to ignore it is playing with fire since ignoring it becomes a case of descrimination/unjustified termination. As much as it would suck, it would most likely be a no-brainer that they would surely lose. B/C, even if a judge decides against the law he can't justify deciding against YOU who were merely following current law.

xmirage2kx

· #9 · Feb 27, 2008

heavykevy said:
I am sorry for you xmirage2kx; personally, if I were you I would keep my eye out for a better employer.

Well if you know of any place that will pay me $45K let me know

bane

· #10 · Feb 27, 2008

xmirage2kx said:
heavykevy said:

I am sorry for you xmirage2kx; personally, if I were you I would keep my eye out for a better employer.

Click to expand...

Well if you know of any place that will pay me $45K let me know

Yeah, *LOTS*... depending on what you do!

Paul

· #11 · Feb 27, 2008

I am the owner of my business so I get to make the rules. I have nothing in our handbook that prevents carrying. I have wondered for awhile about writing something in my handbook. The handbook exerpt you posted is EXCELLENT. Now that I have about 8 of my employees that took the course last Saturday, I probably should put something in our handbook. One of the guys that took the course was talking with me yesterday and he made some comment like "Of course I won't carry at work." I stopped him and asked him why not and he just kind of looked at me funny. I then told him I would actually probably prefer that he did carry. I told him there was nothing in my policy that prevented him from carrying and never would be. (He may even be reading this post...if he is. GET BACK TO WORK....LOL) I am going to use your post as a guideline for how I write my handbook policy. Again it is excellent IMO. Thanks for the post.

davyut

· #12 · Feb 27, 2008

In my sales job I carry in the car but never into the clients offices.
Call me crazy but Ogden can be a scary place sometimes.

CR500AF

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 27, 2008

davyut said:
In my sales job I carry in the car but never into the clients offices.
Call me crazy but Ogden can be a scary place sometimes.

Sometimes? I got a friend who is a UHP officer and he assists the Ogden PD out all the time, he says that place is bad!

HERMIT

· #14 · Feb 27, 2008

Yep, the only time my son pulled a gun since he got his permit was in Ogden, but any place can be bad at the wrong time.
-Hermit

yung1s

· #15 · Feb 28, 2008

I work for one of the larger financial broker-dealers in the state and I carry everyday to work. I've been doing it for a few months now and no one has noticed and no one ever will. I don't know if my company has any rules about carrying but I honestly don't care. If I lose my job, I'll go to another broker-dealer (this is of course if I choose NOT to fight it first). If the new broker asks why I got fired, I'll tell them the truth and explain that I am allowed to by law.

The reason why I carry everyday is because we recently moved the ENTIRE office to a location in an area that is a bit sketchy - you know... the park with all the drug dealers that starts with a 'P'? Why? I don't know. The office itself isn't in a bad location, it's our parking that I'm afraid of. My parking spot for example is two blocks away from the building, tucked away from ALL major traffic, over by the railroad tracks, and I have to cross under a bridge of a major road. This is starting to sound like a scene in a cops n robbers moive. :? Their idea of safety are rent-a-cops that are "suppose" to be there but I've never seen them once. To me, this is perfect spot for a BG to hide out and easily plan and implement an attack and given the area, it's not unlikely. Honestly I get the creeps every morning and afternoon when I walk to my car. :| During the day, I'll have it tucked inside my shirt but sometimes when I get this feeling in my gut, I'll go to the restrooms before I leave and readjust to carry OC but with my jacket still over it to give me easier access.

The way I see it is if you can hide it well enough, just do it. I highly doubt that if something were to happen and you were able to save your life and possibly one of your co-workers that you'd get fired for it. And if you do, I'm sure it won't be hard to make a public scene of it. The Salt Lake Tribune might not run your story but who says that CNN or another media company won't. Companies like mine can't afford bad publicity so I'm gonna use it to my advantage. 8)

And just as a note, my company is AWESOME to work for and I love my job. It just baffles me as to how they chose their new location.

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ammosargeant

· #16 · Feb 28, 2008

I am glad PW wrote what he did since i was wondering what he thinks about employees carrying. I have not carried at work except when we went rabbit hunting on that friday. My job is such that i see no need to carry there unless we have to deliver to the ogden area. Of course if my boss says it is okay then i might consider it but only with his permission and only if we have a delivery in salt lake or ogden. I am glad others wrote about this and thier experiences,it is very informative. thank you

bane

· #17 · Feb 28, 2008

I grew up on the "westside" of Ogden... and yes, Ogden is every bit as bad as most think... not that there aren't areas that are nice, but there are parts of Ogden that make me far more nervous than ANYWHERE I've seen in SL so far.

PW: Something else to consider when writing your policy is the way my company has done it. Our employee manual makes NO REFERENCE to carrying AT ALL. What it DOES do is outlines and forbids things like "assault" and "threatening" another person. That way, regardless if one is doing such with a firearm, knife, fist, or computer monitor, it is ALL uniformly against the policy... and if one is merely CC'ing lawfully, it is uniformly NOT against policy. To require the permit be copied and held on file doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Of course, it's better than nothing, though!

Jeff Johnson

· #18 · Feb 28, 2008

There is no policy at my current place of employment against carrying, particularly since it is a state-owned company, so they can't make one anyway.

I used to work for a company in Provo that most certainly did have an anti-gun policy, which I discretely ignored. Nobody was any the wiser. Well concealed is well concealed.

divegeek

· #19 · Feb 28, 2008

I normally work at home, and I carry or not there exactly as I please

On the rare occasions when I go into the office (maybe once per month) I CC even though my company's policy forbids it. I don't worry about it too much because (a) no one is ever going to know; (b) if someone did "make" me; I really doubt they'd say anything; and (c) if someone did say something, the director who supervises my office wouldn't do anything more than slap my wrist, if that. Due to an unusual set of circumstances, I did have to reveal to him one day that I was carrying and his only reaction was to talk about how his son has been urging him to get a CFP. His son has one and carries everywhere except church.

I also spend a fair amount of time at client sites and I plan to CC there as well but since receiving my CFP I haven't visited a client in a state that honors my permit. Most of my recent trips have been to Wisconsin, which doesn't issue a permit and doesn't honor anyone else's permit, so I didn't bother taking the gun with me.

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Paul

· #20 · Feb 28, 2008

bane said:
PW: Something else to consider when writing your policy is the way my company has done it. Our employee manual makes NO REFERENCE to carrying AT ALL. What it DOES do is outlines and forbids things like "assault" and "threatening" another person. That way, regardless if one is doing such with a firearm, knife, fist, or computer monitor, it is ALL uniformly against the policy... and if one is merely CC'ing lawfully, it is uniformly NOT against policy. To require the permit be copied and held on file doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Of course, it's better than nothing, though!

I have this type of language in my handbook already. Carrying would be OK per my current handbook The reason I want a copy of the permit is I feel it is in my best interest as the owner to know who is carrying and it gives me a chance to personally discuss the policy with them and tell them I carry. I also like the specific lined out in the policy. There is some liability to me by allowing employees to carry! There is also liability by NOT allowing them to carry. Having a specific policy helps protect me against both liabilites. Doing nothing is really the worst option IMO.

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