Backup Guns

4745 Views 30 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Anonymous, Dec 23, 2007

knayrb

Discussion Starter · Dec 20, 2007

As I have read this and other forums I realize that their are a many of you that carry a backup gun. I have always tried to weigh the probability (risk) of meeting up with a deadly threat vs. being prepared. Maybe I've been lucky my whole life but in 48 years, the worst threat I've run into was when I got into playground fist fight in the 6th grade. (Nobody tells me that my girl friend has fleas!)

I am not a statistician but if I understand some of gun stats I've heard I have to ask myself these questions:

1) What do I think is the chance that I will have to actually use my gun to stop a deadly threat?

2) Of that percentage what percentage do I have to actually fire? I've heard that about 90% of the time just producing a gun will scare the BG away.

3) Of that percent what is the percentage that you will have to fire more rounds than are in your magazine. I've read that rarely is more that 3.

4) Also of the percentage in 2) What is the percentage of someone taking your primary gun away and you having enough time to get to your BUG before he uses it against you?

If you take the percent of the percent of the percent you mentally get a pretty small number or risk factor. I probably have a greater chance of being trampled in a stampede of purple Hippos on State Street but like I said before, I am not a statistician. Personally I don't carry a backup gun but as usual others have their own reasons. My thinking is something down the line of if I am in an area that I need more that one gun then I probably shouldn't be in that area. I think that LEO have a totally different needs than CCW citizens and so in my mind have a greater need for a BUG. Also you may work or live in an area that has greater risk than the general public.

What are other's views and reasons for carrying or not carrying a BUG?

BTW - Many of you might be traveling tomorrow and over the weekend. I want to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and hope that you have a safe year in which you never need to use your gun except for the sheer fun of shooting.

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GeneticsDave

· #21 · Dec 21, 2007

@tapehoser

You should look at a kydex holster for your weapon (strong side) and a double mag pouch (kydex) possibly with a spot for a flashlight on your support side. This keeps weight roughly equal on both sides of the hip and allows you to reload faster (reaching for mags on support side instead of cross drawing all the way over to your holster).

I know a lot of guys that carry 1911's and have two double mag pouches because each mag only gives them 7 rounds. Most of these guys used to be LE or military and some of them are trainers to this day. I would carry at least one spare mag, you want to have at least 20 rounds on you at any given time (so that means three mags for a 1911).

The combination holsters that hold a mag and your gun (Uncle Mike's Sidekick) are great for the range, but you need something more 'tactical' for out and about.

Good luck huntin'!

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GeneticsDave

· #22 · Dec 21, 2007

Ruger Collector said:
You Sir, underestimate the cowardice of gang members, and most criminals in general..

I'm not underestimating the cowardice of gang members or criminals. If the majority of them weren't cowards, why would they travel in packs (power of numbers)?

I guess my point was that I am not willing to bet my life on a hope that the one time I end up face to face with criminals, they will run. I just don't like those odds. It's far too easy to carry more mags and a BUG.

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knayrb

Discussion Starter · #23 · Dec 21, 2007

I appreciate the views expressed so far. Didn't the off duty Odgen LEO have more of a obligation to pursue, put his life on the line, and be more aggressive in attacking the killer? He was trained for that and I appreciate his courage. If I was hunting down a killer I would want tons of ammo and as many BUGs as I could carry. As a CCW citizen I personally don't think a BUG is necessary.

A CCW citizen has a different responsibility with respect to the laws. We are not authorized to do what the Odgen officer did but must follow every avenue of avoidance before using our guns. That's how I interpret the Utah law on this. Maybe if a CCW citizen chased down and killed the killer they wouldn't have charges pressed but what if that citizen accidentally shot and killed an innocent bystander? I'm having trouble understanding the gray line between aggressively searching out a deadly threat and avoiding using my gun at the last resort. There are a couple of security guards in my office that would just love the chance to draw their weapon and shoot someone. They look forward to that day. They scare me.

Don't be another Olden Polynice?

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bane

· #24 · Dec 21, 2007

I'm all for carrying extra mags b/c while in the event of being personally attacked would likely place the assailant close enough not to need extra rounds, other incidents like TS would likely mean distant, and thus missed, shots.

However, in response to the argument of fighting off 10 thugs who jump you... can anyone here honestly argue that they can sight in on a target at 30 feet, fire, retrain on a 2nd target, fire, a 3rd, fire... and so on for 10 targets??? All without missing, and all in less than 2 seconds??? Now, those are all individual shots per target.... so, given what most others here have said in the past... you will need to turn around and repeat the above several times over again... who here can even imagine that's physically possible???

Consider the plane that crashed in PA on 9/11... now, granted, the terrorists didn't actually have weapons... but can you honestly imagine that the terrorists (I believe there were 2 in the cabin) would have stood a chance against the group that revolted??? No, no chance... which is precisely the argument those men used to convince themselves to make the sacrifice... they knew they would be able to succeed.

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Ruger Collector

· #25 · Dec 21, 2007

Welcome back bane! How was your trip? Any airport hassles with your gun?

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bane

· #26 · Dec 22, 2007

Oh, thanks for the "Welcome Back", Ruger!

Yeah, trip was a great! Northern border area of WA is wonderful country.

Airport was smooth. SLC was smooth... except I found out that they are using outdated paperwork (over a year old, apparently)... the little tag you fill out to enclose in your suitcase with the firearm.

SeaTac was smooth too... they are the ones who told me the SLC paperwork was outdated and made me redo it but it wasn't a big deal. They did open my suitcase and do chemical checks for explosive residue but I noticed the guy was checking all bags so I assume his shift was just randomly selected to do thorough checks or something. He was very nice and never once made my carrying my firearm in my luggage anything more than what it was.

Both directions I flew SouthWest and both directions the various Reps and Agents were plenty aware of how to handle checked firearms and were plenty friendly about it.

While in WA I carried everywhere and never once saw any "No Guns" signs. But I did stay away from questionable areas (like Federal places, schools, adult venues, etc). I also left the gun behind when I went to Vancouver for a day... which, as I later found out, was a very good thing... apparently private ownership of guns is strictly controlled and pretty much illegal.

Other than that, great trip... no problems... I did have to be creative in hiding it from my Step-Mom though... VERY anti-gun. Oh well... as they say, "what she doesn't know won't hurt her"!

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HERMIT

· #27 · Dec 22, 2007

I like the idea of carrying an extra magazine or a back up gun but find that the extra magazine is as hard to carry and conceal as the gun is, or maybe a little harder for the big magazines. Speed loaders are an awkward shape as well. Most of the time I just give up and only carry the ammo that is in my gun.

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hamm

· #28 · Dec 23, 2007

HERMIT said:
I like the idea of carrying an extra magazine or a back up gun but find that the extra magazine is as hard to carry and conceal as the gun is, or maybe a little harder for the big magazines.

I used to never carry an extra mag until I got a Smart Carry. With Smart Carry, it's easy to carry an extra mag. In fact, I think it's more comfortable with the extra mag because it evens out the holster (gun on right, mag on left).

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· #29 · Dec 23, 2007

I dont know how many members here have; pointed a gun at someone, held a person at gun point, shot or shot at someone, or been in a fire fight. I've done enough of the above to know you can never carry to many rounds. I dont carry a back up all that often, when I do I carry it weak side, you never know wen you strong side arm might get tied up.

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knayrb

Discussion Starter · #30 · Dec 23, 2007

I dont know how many members here have; pointed a gun at someone, held a person at gun point, shot or shot at someone, or been in a fire fight. I've done enough of the above to know you can never carry to many rounds.

WOW! :shock: Are you a LEO? What do you do that gets youself into all these deadly situations? Please let us know of your experiences by posting a few details in the Real Life Stories section. We would like to hear about those. Thanks.

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· #31 · Dec 23, 2007

Spent a few years as a soldier, went into a few bad neighborhoods, as an MP (working law enforcement conus) my gun only came out once. In time I will write a few stories but, only one of them relates to civilian type self defense.

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