[RobFindlay]

I suppose this applies to open and concealed carry.

I have a friend in PA who open carries and carries consealed he suggested to me when I mentioned concern about my weapon printing or open carrying that I just get a "security" or "bodyguard" badge made up and slap that on my belt next to the gun, basically (he said) as long as your not trying to impersonate a police officer or some such you were legal.

I'm wondering what the laws are in Utah.

My plan up to this point has been if I did print and someone asked I'd just answer vaguely "it's for work." and leave it at that, if they where rude I'd say "It's my colostomy bag, can you help m change it?"

Your thoughts are valued as always.......

Rob

 

[Paul]

Check out this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1496

 

[divegeek]

I suppose this applies to open and concealed carry.

I have a friend in PA who open carries and carries concealed he suggested to me when I mentioned concern about my weapon printing or open carrying that I just get a "security" or "bodyguard" badge made up and slap that on my belt next to the gun, basically (he said) as long as your not trying to impersonate a police officer or some such you were legal.

If someone wanted to push it, I think it might come down to an argument over your intent, and it seems to me that your intent is to make people think you're a cop. Your reason for wanting people to think you're a cop isn't to exercise authority over them, but just to keep them from hassling you about carrying, but I don't think that matters.

I wouldn't do it.

My plan up to this point has been if I did print and someone asked I'd just answer vaguely "it's for work." and leave it at that, if they were rude I'd say "It's my colostomy bag, can you help m change it?"

Why not just tell them it's for self-defense? If you're at work or somewhere else that getting made would be a real problem, better to choose a deep concealment option so that you don't get made.

 

[bane]

Rob,

I think being concerned about printing makes sense only from a strategical aspect and if you are someplace of particular value to you such as Church, Work, or School.

But outside of places like that, printing is only a strategical concern -- meaning, if you don't want a bad guy to know you are carrying, you should try to minimize printing as much as you comfortably can; but if he DOES spot it and you have a badge or some verbal excuse prepared it really doesn't matter much in that situation. On the other hand, if you a non-bad guy sees your printing out in public... really, who cares??? The worst that could happen is that the Manager at Wally's will ask you to leave... so what, just leave... and come back later or go elsewhere to shop.

In short, printing is a legitimate concern... but preparing some form of defense in case you print is pointless. Except for those more valuable places I mentioned at the out-set -- for those you'd be better-off making sure you are concealed even better.

Just my $0.02 -- maybe I just don't understand the argument for why I should care if a non-bad-guy in a general-public place sees me packing.

 

[Paul]

Rob,

I think being concerned about printing makes sense only from a strategical aspect and if you are someplace of particular value to you such as Church, Work, or School.

But outside of places like that, printing is only a strategical concern -- meaning, if you don't want a bad guy to know you are carrying, you should try to minimize printing as much as you comfortably can; but if he DOES spot it and you have a badge or some verbal excuse prepared it really doesn't matter much in that situation. On the other hand, if you a non-bad guy sees your printing out in public... really, who cares??? The worst that could happen is that the Manager at Wally's will ask you to leave... so what, just leave... and come back later or go elsewhere to shop.

In short, printing is a legitimate concern... but preparing some form of defense in case you print is pointless. Except for those more valuable places I mentioned at the out-set -- for those you'd be better-off making sure you are concealed even better.

Just my $0.02 -- maybe I just don't understand the argument for why I should care if a non-bad-guy in a general-public place sees me packing.

Bane, Welcome back! Where you been?

I agree with Bane with 1 exception. I highly doubt a bad guy is going to notice printing. I would bet they are so nervous or focused on cameras, possible security, and other stuff that the last thing they are going to be doing is a calm collected visual search of the people around them to see if someone is printing. IMO, printing is a nonissue and shouldn't be worried about. Unless you are somewhere that you absolutely don't want someone to know you are printing (like Bane said, work, school, etc.) don't worry about it.

 

[RobFindlay]

'course I could just go ahead and get my aprentice private investigator license and then get a PI badge.

I don't like the self-defense answer it seems like it would give someone the idea that you were looking for trouble or a troublemaker.

Honestly though if anyone ever did ask my answer would depend on their attitude, if they were friendly-curious I might tell my take of why I carry (and a left winger to boot.) Heck might make a friend out of someone.

My buddy back in PA is a an ex cop and he was allowed to carry his badge after retirment until sometime in the mid 90's when they changed the law, he was bound however to state he was retired.

I think the badges that say "concealed carry permit" are basically brandishing without brandishing, If i saw someone with one of those I'd think "what a macho jerk,"

 

[bane]

PW, thanks for the warm welcome-back! I've just been busy with school, work, and home-renovation stuff. The weather warmed, work got busy, and I got into an online class all at the same time... my time online is mostly limited to school right now. I was upset to see that I missed TJ's appearance before WVC. My email auto-forwarding thing wasn't working right (it was broken on MY side, not UCC's).

I still think we need a community-action auto-email list thingy... oh well...

Anyways, I agree with you regarding the BG not noticing printing in the first place.

Rob, nice to see another lefty comin' on-board! I have been noticing that more libs are starting to realize the sense in self-defense.
You argument RE: "the self-defense answer" might hold-up on the East coast or some of the other more liberal states but honestly I have found it mostly doesn't apply here in Utah. As long as you have the right demeanor when you talk about it, most people will quickly see your point even if they don't fully agree 100%. Rather than being up-front quasi-confrontational about, just be fairly nonchalant about it and instead of saying "self defense" say something like "oh you know... you never know where you'll be when some wacko decides to act out". Most conservatives here will support you completely. And most liberals will recognize your point even if they have personal reservations about your particular answer to that problem. But so what if they have reservations??? Just proceed to talk to them about whatever ELSE seems applicable and show them you are a friendly, polite, non-gun-centrist-wacko who is just concerned about going about one's business without interference and embracing the rest of civilized society. They'll quickly perceive that you aren't a threat and will just brush you off as an oddity at worst.

At least, that's been my perception here in Utah. I have a good friend here who is from Wisconsin and is hard-core left and for years was in the leadership at SLCC for the student democrats group. I don't think she knows I carry, but she does know that I support firearms defense. On a few occasions I have mentioned that in certain dire situations a certain so-and-so should obtain a firearm to make sure they are protected... she never once acted astounded or angry or otherwise.

 

[mchlwise]

I'm pretty anti-badge also.

The badges, like the concealed permit badge in the referenced thread, look like police badges. That's their purpose - to fool the quick glancer. Someone sees a gun on your hip, gets nervous, then sees a badge and believes you are in law enforcement then calms down.

I usually conceal, and pretty deeply. Occasionally, I'll open carry, and when I do I'm ready to get hassled about it. I don't think it's "right" to try to cover it up with a fake badge.

:dunno:

 

[bane]

Plus, isn't covering it up with a fake badge really skirting the issue: that of Public Education... ????

 

[apollosmith]

I don't like the ideas of badges either. But while we're on the topic, I want to clarify that it is illegal in Utah to have a star-shaped badge if you are not law enforcement.

 

[GeneticsDave]

First of all, let me be frank. I have a CFP badge. I keep it in my wallet with my other IDs. I don't wear it on my belt next to my OC'd sidearm, I don't show it to people, I have it in case I am ever involved in a shooting so I can hold it up to arriving police. You might think that is lame, but I'm going to do everything in my power NOT to get shot by the bad guy(s) and especially not shot by the good guys arriving on scene. The quick identification of being a good guy the badge affords is worth carrying it (in my mind). I don't feel I'm trying to be a cop or that I want anyone else to think that, but I also don't want to be viewed as the bad guy when some overly-excited rookie has a spasm in his booger-scratcher 'cause he was the first to see a man with a gun while responding to a shooting call.

My $0.02.

BTW: I would highly suggest against wearing any badge openly if you are not law enforcement, security, fire/rescue, etc.

 

[mchlwise]

I have it in case I am ever involved in a shooting so I can hold it up to arriving police.

That's a good point. Thinking about it, I will probably hold up my CFP and Drivers License in that situation. They should know what a CFP looks like.

Since we're being frank... I like the badges. I think they look cool. I have considered buying one, and may still one day. If I do, though, it will get attached to my gun safe, or my range bag, or something like that where I can enjoy it but nobody else will see it. I wouldn't ever consider wearing it on my belt (or anywhere else) in public.

 

[Mazellan]

First of all, let me be frank. I have a CFP badge. I keep it in my wallet with my other IDs. I don't wear it on my belt next to my OC'd sidearm, I don't show it to people, I have it in case I am ever involved in a shooting so I can hold it up to arriving police. You might think that is lame, but I'm going to do everything in my power NOT to get shot by the bad guy(s) and especially not shot by the good guys arriving on scene. The quick identification of being a good guy the badge affords is worth carrying it (in my mind). I don't feel I'm trying to be a cop or that I want anyone else to think that, but I also don't want to be viewed as the bad guy when some overly-excited rookie has a spasm in his booger-scratcher 'cause he was the first to see a man with a gun while responding to a shooting call.

My $0.02.

BTW: I would highly suggest against wearing any badge openly if you are not law enforcement, security, fire/rescue, etc.

I totaly agree with Dave's use of a CFP badge. I have considered getting one myself. However, I see it as a waste of money for me since I am going Into law enforcement. The quick ID in a situation might be the best thing.

Yes the officers know what a CFP looks like but depending on the distance they may not be able to see it that well. However, a shiny badge would have a greater distance and be rather mistakable for anything but a badge.

 

[glock fan]

First of all, let me be frank. I have a CFP badge. I keep it in my wallet with my other IDs. I don't wear it on my belt next to my OC'd sidearm, I don't show it to people, I have it in case I am ever involved in a shooting so I can hold it up to arriving police. You might think that is lame, but I'm going to do everything in my power NOT to get shot by the bad guy(s) and especially not shot by the good guys arriving on scene. The quick identification of being a good guy the badge affords is worth carrying it (in my mind). I don't feel I'm trying to be a cop or that I want anyone else to think that, but I also don't want to be viewed as the bad guy when some overly-excited rookie has a spasm in his booger-scratcher 'cause he was the first to see a man with a gun while responding to a shooting call.

My $0.02.

BTW: I would highly suggest against wearing any badge openly if you are not law enforcement, security, fire/rescue, etc.

Don,t forget to practice retrieving that badge while holding a subject at gun point.

gf

 

[xmirage2kx]

Don,t forget to practice retrieving that badge while holding a subject at gun point.

For me there is such a small margin of time between draw, aim, and fire I don't think I would have to worry about that (even a super slow ankle draw takes less than 5 seconds for just about everyone). The only time I could think of that I would draw and not fire is if the appearance of my gun made the BG drop everything he was doing and have his hands up behind his head while dropping to the ground. If the BG did this before I had a sight picture and moved my finger half an inch I would hold the BG there at gunpoint. Otherwise I think the gun would go bang just enough to have the BG drop everything he was doing while falling to the ground. If I am drawing my weapon things have moved well past negotiations.

 

[Tarzan1888]

I suppose this applies to open and concealed carry.

I have a friend in PA who open carries and carries consealed he suggested to me when I mentioned concern about my weapon printing or open carrying that I just get a "security" or "bodyguard" badge made up and slap that on my belt next to the gun, basically (he said) as long as your not trying to impersonate a police officer or some such you were legal.

I'm wondering what the laws are in Utah.

My plan up to this point has been if I did print and someone asked I'd just answer vaguely "it's for work." and leave it at that, if they where rude I'd say "It's my colostomy bag, can you help m change it?"

Your thoughts are valued as always.......

Rob

O please Not again.....

WE don't need no stinking badges.....

Tarzan

 

[scorpioajr]

....I have a friend....badge made up and slap that on my belt next to the gun....

well try this website: http://www.nles.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=27

for anywhere between $40-and $90 you can get a custom made one to say "Open Carry" I think get up to 4 lines per badge so you can put statutes,names, or whatever you want on it. and SO long as your not lying about the information on the badge, its not illegal. Geez, you could get one that said CIVILIAN. that SHOULD put some ppls mind at ease at a glace, thats not a bad idea actually.

 

[Outsider]

Max Armory: http://www.maxarmory.com/index.php?p=pr ... &parent=19

I've also looked into this and going to get a badge I can have in my back pocket to put my CFP in. Basically what you see above. Going to put my business cards in it and everything as well.

Here are the law for Utah:

76-8-512. Impersonation of officer.

A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor who:
(1) impersonates a public servant or a peace officer with intent to deceive another or with intent to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely upon his pretended official act;
(2) falsely states he is a public servant or a peace officer with intent to deceive another or to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely upon his pretended official act; or
(3) displays or possesses without authority any badge, identification card, other form of identification, any restraint device, or the uniform of any state or local governmental entity, or a reasonable facsimile of any of these items, with the intent to deceive another or with the intent to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely upon his pretended official act.

Amended by Chapter 210, 1991 General Session

For private security companies you cannot have a star-style badge, "State of Utah" or the Utah Seal on the badge. So I would make sure I wouldn't get anything like that. I couldn't find the code but I have read it on that.

 

[GeneticsDave]

Outsider, I have the same one you mentioned (I like the leather wallet they sell with it) in Gun Metal. I keep my IDs in that wallet and my money/cards in a separate one.

I got one with the USA seal in the middle since I thought that I might be moving around and didn't want to have it be a "Utah" badge. Anyways... that's all I have to share.

 

[dhofstet]

I work for a security company and we arnt even allowed to have badges with a Star or with "State of Utah" on them. Just "Security Enforcement". So if this guy was toting a gun and wearing a badge with anything like that written on it, i would see that as Impersonating LE