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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had the worse time getting my CC permit. I applied in Mar its now Aug 4. A few weeks ago I got letter in the mail from the BCI with a form stating I need copy of Alien rigistration card or record or Naturalization as US Citizen. First let me say both my parents are US citzens. Until a few weeks ago I assumed I was too. It is true I was born outside the United States in England as my parents were staioned there in the Air Force. I have a US birth Certificate like most everyone else does on here. I called the BCI several times explaining my situation and asking why this never came up when I purchase any of my fire arms I own. They gave me alot of run around and said since I was born outside the US I had to prove I was a citizen. First of all I was in the Air Force myself for 10 years, then worked for a Major airline which made us get complete back ground checks through the F.B.I every 6 months after 911. My birth certificate was detroyed in a move from Saint Louis to Utah a few yrs back. Heres what I dont get. What does the BCI and FBI do as far as background checks, They should have ability to check that im a US Citizen. I also have a social security card, Drivers Licence, , no criminal record. I had to write to the US State Department cost me $35.00 to get copy of birth certificate. Every ofher American citizen I went with to my concealed class with got their permits without having to prove who they were. Why am I singled out? I am not a foreigner and im insulted with the Alien registration forms they mailed me from the BCI. They need to state on BCI that even if you are a US Citizen you have to prove it if you were born outside the US. I got my birth certificate it says us citizen on it so whats the Deal? If you were asked to prove your Citizenship wouldnt you be mad?
Charles G.
 

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I feel your pain. I believe that at this point you are able to contact your Congressman. Explain your situation. If you have your discharge papers that may help. You could also contact the military, or military base on which you were born to get a copy of your birth certificate. I see no problem should you go either route especially considering lawful aliens and non-Utahns receive permits all the time. I still think the Congressman or Senator route is best. One other possibility is to contact Clark Aposhian who is on the BCI Board. I hope these suggestions are beneficial.
 

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Sorry about that man.... This thread only has one reply, so I thought I would post.

Sorry for your situation, but keep your chin up. Even though there aren't a lot of replys, we support you.

I can't imagine if I had to wait that long. :crying:
 

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I can see why you're frustrated. I would be too in your shoes.
I think that you're probably stuck until you get the copy of your birth certificate.
That sucks, but I don't see a way around it. It certainly is an insult, I agree.

BTW, please mosey on over to the Introduce Yourself forum and tell us about yourself. We like to be able to welcome new people to our forum properly. That's one of our rules, ya know.
 

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My Uncle, who has a UT CFP btw, was born in Trinidad while my Grandpa was on active duty in the USMC. He has had the same trouble all his life. Plug away at it, you'll get there. For some reason government agencies aren't that smart. Who'da thunk it?
 

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Gee, and here I thought all that was logical, smart, intelligent, and flexible could be found in our local government....

I feel your pain, man. When government incompetence strikes...I hope my wife (legal alien) doesn't have these issues. Can legal aliens get CFPs?

--Geoff
 

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My dad was born in turkey, and when we went to buy my first gun and it took an extra 45 min to do the background check because of it.
 

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One of my grandsons was born in Germany, his dad was stationed there. He has both citizenships until he is 18. I hope he does not have these same problems when he gets older.
 

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charlesg said:
What does the BCI and FBI do as far as background checks, They should have ability to check that im a US Citizen. I also have a social security card, Drivers Licence, , no criminal record.
A "background check" isn't what a lot of people think it is.

The BCI and/or the FBI don't go around and talk to your friends and family and past acquaintances and research who you are. They simply run your name through various databases for "flags". Arrests, convictions, terror-watch-list entries, things of that nature. There is no "good list" in this country that keeps track of what people do and how great they are. There is only a "bad list" that you show up on if you get in trouble or otherwise raise someone's caution flags.

"Born in another country" is apparently associated with your name in one or more databases. Homeland Security probably has told BCI that is reason to reject anyone applying for a CFP, unless they can prove citizenship.

It's not a personal attack against you, just a flag that they want cleared up before they can approve you. :dunno:
 

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burninator said:
...I hope my wife (legal alien) doesn't have these issues. Can legal aliens get CFPs?

--Geoff
Not anymore. Utah used to issue CFPs to legal aliens, but BCI stopped that practice. A bill in the legislature that would have restored that practice didn't pass. I wish it would.

I think that I've noticed a distinct downturn in the attitude of the BCI over guns. They even are trying to stop the practice of issuing to residents of other states. :disgusted:
 

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Wow... that's a bummer. I feel for you. Luckily we didn't have those problems. I agree with the above, though, you should probably start contacting people like Clark and your rep's.

On a side-note... being in the military doesn't say anything about one's citizenship status. *TONS* of service members are not citizens. Not that you don't have a pile of OTHER reasons this shouldn't have been a problem, though.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
burninator said:
...I hope my wife (legal alien) doesn't have these issues. Can legal aliens get CFPs?

--Geoff
Not anymore. Utah used to issue CFPs to legal aliens, but BCI stopped that practice. A bill in the legislature that would have restored that practice didn't pass. I wish it would.
I queried BCI on the topic and received the following:

Citizens of other countries cannot have the permit unless they have been in the country for 90 days and are listed with the INS as a "Permanent Resident". Same with people that were born in another country but are now citizens on the USA. When we look them up with the INS they need to be considered "Naturalized Citizens" and be in the country for at least 90 days.

Jeff Johnson said:
I think that I've noticed a distinct downturn in the attitude of the BCI over guns. They even are trying to stop the practice of issuing to residents of other states. :disgusted:
It should be noted that the legislature determines the gun laws rather than BCI. BCI does their darndest to properly execute their responsibilities according to the laws passed by the legislature (who next meet in January).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for looking that info up. Porblem is besides being born to Us Parents outside the united state Ive been in this country since 1964, so I do not qualify for naturalization or green card status. Because im an american citizen. Thats what pisses me off!!! Charles G.
UtahCFP said:
Jeff Johnson said:
burninator said:
...I hope my wife (legal alien) doesn't have these issues. Can legal aliens get CFPs?

--Geoff
Not anymore. Utah used to issue CFPs to legal aliens, but BCI stopped that practice. A bill in the legislature that would have restored that practice didn't pass. I wish it would.
I queried BCI on the topic and received the following:

Citizens of other countries cannot have the permit unless they have been in the country for 90 days and are listed with the INS as a "Permanent Resident". Same with people that were born in another country but are now citizens on the USA. When we look them up with the INS they need to be considered "Naturalized Citizens" and be in the country for at least 90 days.

Jeff Johnson said:
I think that I've noticed a distinct downturn in the attitude of the BCI over guns. They even are trying to stop the practice of issuing to residents of other states. :disgusted:
It should be noted that the legislature determines the gun laws rather than BCI. BCI does their darndest to properly execute their responsibilities according to the laws passed by the legislature (who next meet in January).
 

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UtahCFP said:
I queried BCI on the topic and received the following:

Citizens of other countries cannot have the permit unless they have been in the country for 90 days and are listed with the INS as a "Permanent Resident". Same with people that were born in another country but are now citizens on the USA. When we look them up with the INS they need to be considered "Naturalized Citizens" and be in the country for at least 90 days.
Sweet! My wife is a legal permanent resident, so hooray for us! Now, if I can just get a little money to get two permits and two guns... :D Thanks, UtahCFP!

--Geoff
 

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Charles,
i am not sure if the Canadian citizen process is the same as the US (but it does seem to be modeled after it). I am a naturalized us citizen; i was born in Canada. All three of my kids were born in the us. i have until they are 27 to apply for them to be canadian citizens as well as US. Check with immigration to see if you can apply for something similar for the US do get documentation.

On a side note. My father (also naturalized US citizen) forgot to write his INS number on a hazmat app for a CDL. He got a letter stating that because of that he might be a terrorist from the TSA.
 
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