Bizarre situation

9503 Views 38 Replies 16 Participants Last post by daveyG, Mar 20, 2008

cjj98xj

Discussion Starter · Nov 12, 2007

About 4 years ago I had a situation occur. This was quite possibly the turning point for me to really want to get my CFP.

I was traveling with my wife and son from our house in Murray at the time, to my parents house in Idaho. We were headed up for a weekend visit and to get away from the busy city life. We were in our car, heading North on I-15. It was a Saturday, probably around noon. For some reason traffic was really heavy that day, almost as heavy as rush h our afternoon traffic.

Anyhow, we has just passed the 600 North overpass when I noticed a guy on a motorcycle behind me. We were traveling in the far left lane as we were passing traffic. I'd guess the average speed of traffic was around 60 MPH. We were probably going about 62 or 63 MPH. So we were passing traffic, but slowly. There was almost bumper to bumper traffic. A car ahead of me, so I couldn't speed up. Plenty of cars to my right, so I couldn't easily move over. At one point, I noticed a slot to my right. I turned on my blinker getting ready to move over. Just as I had started to slowly move over, a car shot out of the far right lane, into the middle lane spot I was going to take. By now, the guy on the motorcycle was quite upset. He kept giving me the one-finger salute from time to time. I wasn't going to cause any accidents on this guys behalf. Besides, if he got around me, he'd only have to deal with yet another slow moving vehicle.

We traveled about another half mile or so. I noticed another slot to my right. I again turned on my blinker and started to slide over. Suddenly the guy on the motorcycle shot over narrowly missing a car and he pulled up alongside me. He pulled up next to my wife's window and started yelling every obscenity known to man. Constantly giving us the finger again. I tried to ignore him as much as possible. I let off the gas and started coasting in an attempt to just have him go away. He also slowed and finally did the unthinkable. He pulled back his leather riding vest and there in his shoulder holster was a 1911 pistol. I distinctly remember this for some reason. It could have been a .22 for all I cared though. This guy was actually threatening my by brandishing his weapon. He even put his hand on it as if he were going to pull it out.

This went on for only about 1/8 mile or so. He finally gave up and shot directly across traffic again and took the 2300 North / Warm Springs Road exit just before crossing over Beck Street. To say I was scared was about accurate. To say my wife was scared would be the understatement of the year. I'm not certain if anyone else saw this guy showing off his weapon in such a manner or not. Because he never got in front of me, I was never able to get his license plate number. Not sure if anyone else on the freeway did or not. I didn't have a cell phone at the time either, so I was unable to call the police. By the time I would have gotten to a phone, he could have been long gone from the scene anyway.

I replay it in my mind from time to time. I didn't have my permit at the time, and thus no gun with me. And I keep thinking what I would have done if he would have actually pulled it out and pointed it at us. I undoubtedly would have swerved over into his lane in an effort to run him over. I was prepared to do that at the time he was threatening us. In fact, it had run through my mind about a million times ever since he got up along side of us and started yelling at us. I'd like to think I had justifiable reason if it would have come to that. If anyone knows otherwise, please tell me so. If I did have to run him over in self-defense, I'm not sure how the law would apply to this. But you can guarantee I'd rather be alive in a jail somewhere than 6-feet under because of this ******.

Now that I have my CFP, I know undoubtedly as well what my new choice would be if this situation were to ever happen again.

Cliffs: It's a long read, but worth it IMO. :lol:

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bane

· #5 · Nov 12, 2007

Yeah, I agree that given the situation you can't do much (other than report him). Taking any action to counter-act his "threat" in that situation would have been overkill, especially with as many innocent bystanders were around you (shooting or crashing into him, either way someone else is pretty likely to get hurt also... something you will stand a chance of being held liable for).

I also agree that using your vehicle versus a gun would be a better choice. It's pretty hard to "miss" when you ram your big car into his relatively big motorcycle... it's a whole lot easier to miss when it's a little tiny bullet aiming at a relatively small body while both are moving and bouncing.

That being said, consider this also: Were he to pull his gun and proceed to draw down on you and you pulled yours and shot him first (hopefully, though highly unlikely unless he was bluffing... but how would you ever know?)... think about how that would play out in court... even though you'd be justified, just the mere fact that you pulled a gun would've undoubtedly caused SOMEONE on the jury to to question your character (even though that's irrational). However, choosing to crash a car into him, the gun-wielder, wouldn't have caused ANYONE to think twice about your character.

That's unfortunately the nature of the society we live in -- the fact is, your odds in court are ALWAYS improved immeasurably when you choose to use any other weapon at your disposal, other than a gun (just make sure the other choice will WORK!).

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bane

· #9 · Nov 12, 2007

apollosmith said:
In this situation, I think you did all you could have done, except now you know to have a cell phone and a gun available as options.

Ditto -- except I would add to that list a non-lethal or at least a less-lethal option such as a knife, OC spray, etc. (not that it would have helped in this particular case, but it would in most)

I have been thinking about this a bit more, though... undoubtedly this is probably going to muddy the water a bit, so, suffice it to say that I agree with the general sentiment and my previous post... the BEST course of action was taken, given the circumstances, and had the guy drawn his weapon the BEST course of action, IMHO, would be to use the car.

However, for the purpose of academics:
One thing that I have been thinking about in this case is the other guy's demeanor through the entire situation along with his ultimate threat and the fact that merely drawing one's weapon and aiming it at the hostile aggressor is not an act of deadly force but is "only" aggravated assault -- what's everyone's thoughts here, is aggravated assault in this case a justifiable and defensible action to take??? It seems to me that if you couple his unjustifiable and aggressive behavior along with his verbal threats followed up with his physical threat that one could easily demonstrate that a reasonable person would have feared for their immediate life (given that there were no escapes available) and that the drawing down on the perpetrator is a reasonable measure to take to prevent the perp from following through on his threat... :?:

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bane

· #25 · Mar 11, 2008

hedonistic,

I don't want to get into a turf war between anyone here. I'm not out to get you, buddy, or make you look like a fool. I didn't serve where you served, that's for sure, but our service is a common bond between us and I understand *SOME* (certainly not all!) of the trauma we go through over there. But, please, hear me out...

You got annoyed by Jeff's comment about "meds". Now, I certainly don't know if there is any truth to his comment or not -- I only know that he made it and that you seemed offended by it. But maybe you shouldn't have been -- you make some fairly offensive statements on this forum yourself and have said that you don't think people should be offended by them but that if they are that that is their problem not yours. Please, stop and think about what you are saying b/c you appear to be contradicting yourself.

I think the benefit of the doubt should be extended to Jeff and you should take his comment as a sincere (if not harsh, perhaps) comment to try and spur you to consider the things you are saying... after all, what we say on this forum is NOT private OR anonymous... and much of what has been said here and in another thread yesterday pushes the "family friendly" limits. Not to mention, as Jeff is pointing out, these types of comments could really come back to hurt you.

Personally, when I got home from my last deployment I went and got counseling for PTSD-related issues and addiction. I went to counseling for 9 months. They told me I wasn't done and that I needed more time, but I just couldn't continue any more. The counseling was great, initially, but eventually it became a weight in my life instead of a life-saving vest. I'm doing much better now. I honestly think all SM's coming back from the war should go to counseling for a while. It's good for the soul!

I hope you take this post in the light I meant it. I am merely trying to help.

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