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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a friend who has been a LEO for 15 or so years who tells me even with a CFP that is illegal to carry loaded in a vehicle. I am pretty sure he is wrong. This is what I could find in the Utah laws. Does having a CFP mean I am authorized by law to do so, and where can I find anymore info about it? I would guess that by how this is stated that since I am legal carrying loaded on the street I would be legal to carry loaded in a vehicle.

76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle;
(b) on any public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
 

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Your friend needs some training (or he's pulling your leg). If you click this link you'll have a printable copy of the BCI webpage that covers this subject.

Link--> CARRYING IN VEHICLES

Only a peace officer in the performance of his duty or a person with a valid permit to carry may carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

It is unlawful for a person without a concealed firearms permit to carry a concealed firearm into a bus terminal.

It is lawful for a person with a concealed firearm permit to board a bus or a train or enter a terminal with a concealed firearm upon their person or effects. This also applies to law enforcement officers or commercial security personnel with firearms used in their employment.

It is lawful to carry a firearm in a vehicle without a permit if: the firearm is unloaded; securely encased (not including a glove box or console box) and is not readily accessible for immediate use.

 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank You so much Ruger Collector! I knew I had seen that somewhere...

I just sent that link to him.
 

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XD Dude said:
I have a friend who has been a LEO for 15 or so years who tells me even with a CFP that is illegal to carry loaded in a vehicle.
Wow, that is scary. I sure wish there weren't people in law enforcement who don't know the law. I mean, honestly, how can you enforce a law you don't even understand? It sure is a good thing we have people like Hunter here who stay on top of things and educate other LEOs. Thanks for the link again, I had forgotten that bit about buses and terminals.
 

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XD Dude wrote:
I have a friend who has been a LEO for 15 or so years who tells me even with a CFP that is illegal to carry loaded in a vehicle.
& Genetics Dave wrote:
Wow, that is scary. I sure wish there weren't people in law enforcement who don't know the law. I mean, honestly, how can you enforce a law you don't even understand? It sure is a good thing we have people like Hunter here who stay on top of things and educate other LEOs. Thanks for the link again, I had forgotten that bit about buses and terminals.

I agree wholeheartedly. Kind of makes you really wonder what IS being taught in the required POST training, or if some of these people don't pay attention?
 

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Cinhil said:
I agree wholeheartedly. Kind of makes you really wonder what IS being taught in the required POST training, or if some of these people don't pay attention?
I got a friend who is about 2-3 months out of POST and he was taught that OC in Utah was illegal, and you could not carry without a permit. Also that even with a permit your gun had to be unloaded and encased if there was anyone in you vehicle without a permit.

I think some instructors just teach their own agenda. :roll:
 

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Thanks Xmirage--it is unfortunate that proper education of those who are supposed to uphold the law is not being done. Many agendas are used whether out of complete ignorance, or simply because someone doesn't care for the way the law may be written, or because they either don't look up the applicable laws they are teaching, or complete buffoons. In any case it is a sad commentary on the education process of our law enforcement officers.
I hope you set your friend straight.
Who knows, maybe some good may come of this - if we are all lucky.
 

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Cinhil said:
Thanks Xmirage--it is unfortunate that proper education of those who are supposed to uphold the law is not being done. Many agendas are used whether out of complete ignorance, or simply because someone doesn't care for the way the law may be written, or because they either don't look up the applicable laws they are teaching, or complete buffoons. In any case it is a sad commentary on the education process of our law enforcement officers.
I hope you set your friend straight.
Who knows, maybe some good may come of this - if we are all lucky.
It turned into quite a discussion in the classroom from what I was told. After I told him what the law actually was and showed him how it is written he took that info to class and he says things got pretty heated with the end result being the instructor agreed that while it is technically legal to OC, it is not recommended. They never did get things totally straight with car carry, but agreed as long as the gun is on the permit holder it is ok.
 

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I've never been able to locate anything in the code that gives a clear definition on something similar. Since I am a CFP holder and cannot carry at work, could I just stuff the entire holster/gun under my front seat? Legally?

I would never do this because my employer does not allow firearms on their property. Even the parking lot. However, the question stands.
 

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tapehoser said:
I've never been able to locate anything in the code that gives a clear definition on something similar. Since I am a CFP holder and cannot carry at work, could I just stuff the entire holster/gun under my front seat? Legally?

I would never do this because my employer does not allow firearms on their property. Even the parking lot. However, the question stands.
Yes, you can store your gun in your car. But I would suggest getting a vehicle safe more for safety then legality.

You as the driver of the vehicle, are responsible for everything in you car (including what passengers bring (few exceptions, but not many).
 

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Wow... this thread is very worrisome... it's one thing to have an occasional LEO that is misguided... it is another thing to hear that their required training is responsible for such ignorance!

Regarding the "?" about storing your firearm in your car... I have a need to occasionally pack to school (because I'm going shooting right after class sometimes)... and, prior to having my permit, I couldn't legally carry it around with me so I would store it in my trunk... I know, a big "no-no" to most, but I did keep it in it's locked container with my trunk fully locked and my car alarm armed. Anyways... I learned that this is legal by finding the following law:

76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.

(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises...

(3) This section does not apply if:...

(d) the possession is:...

(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control...
Now, this is a little different from the situation mentioned in that I did not have a permit at the time and I was storing the weapon unloaded and locked inside my trunk. But by reading the above law it is clear that you may store your weapon on school property inside your car without restriction (concealed if you are authorized to CC). I have not found any other mention in Utah Law to storing your gun in your car and since I have found no prohibition against it, it seems legal.

I only offer the above code to support the concept that if it isn't illegal, it's legal. I argue that since society typically is less tolerant of weapons on school grounds then this law demonstrates that off of school grounds the same law, or a less-restrictive one, would apply.

As a final support, it should be considered that if storing a firearm in one's car were unconditionally illegal then it would follow that the state would likely have a ban on gun-safes designed for car use, which it certainly does not.

As has been said here many times before... if it isn't illegal, it's legal.
 

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bane said:
Wow... this thread is very worrisome... it's one thing to have an occasional LEO that is misguided... it is another thing to hear that their required training is responsible for such ignorance!
The was a UVSC post course, I don't know if the state academy has the same flaws.
 

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A friend of mine was pulled over in Cedar City about a month back. The officer told him that even with his CFP, that he could not have a loaded gun in the vehicle. He didn't want to argue with the officer at the time, so he just let it go. I told him he needed to contact the local police station about the incident so that they could straighten their officers out concerning the law. Unfortunately he never did because he was afraid of possible retaliation from the officer at a later time.
 

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ArcherBen said:
A friend of mine was pulled over in Cedar City about a month back. The officer told him that even with his CFP, that he could not have a loaded gun in the vehicle. He didn't want to argue with the officer at the time, so he just let it go. I told him he needed to contact the local police station about the incident so that they could straighten their officers out concerning the law. Unfortunately he never did because he was afraid of possible retaliation from the officer at a later time.
Then I will make the call myself!!! That is absolutely unacceptable!
 

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ArcherBen said:
A friend of mine was pulled over in Cedar City about a month back. The officer told him that even with his CFP, that he could not have a loaded gun in the vehicle. He didn't want to argue with the officer at the time, so he just let it go. I told him he needed to contact the local police station about the incident so that they could straighten their officers out concerning the law. Unfortunately he never did because he was afraid of possible retaliation from the officer at a later time.
I would hope that an officer of the law would be thankful that he had been corrected on an issue like this, to prevent further embarrasment. Perhaps the side of the road is not the place to debate an issue like that, but it would definitely warrant a trip to court (if a citation was issued). A quick trip to the BCI website shows that the officer had his information wrong. If your friend was afraid of retaliation from the officer, he could easily make an anonymous call to the police station to explain the incident and suggest the chief train his officers.

I am always amazed to hear of law enforcement officers who can be so ignorant of the laws they are sworn to enforce. But I like to think that there are a lot more out there who know their stuff and we just never hear about them.
 

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Instead of calling all of the city, county and state LE offices, and possibly getting brushed off by an ignorant ear. It sounds like somebody should run some state-wide full page "educational" newspaper ads.

We could all contribute to start a fund for this. :?: I'd nominate Jeff to be the treasurer.

 

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At first glance, I think this sounds like an EXCELLENT idea and would be more than willing to put my money where my mouth is... any other takers???

This discussion has made me wonder about something... it seems to me like there should be a state-wide LEO "hotline" that could be run through the LEO's dispatcher or on their laptops that would allow them to chat live with state-level "experts" on issues they don't commonly deal with to ensure they are getting the right info. before creating situations based on faulty info. Course, there isn't anything I can do about it but I wonder why something like this doesn't exist???
 

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bane said:
... it seems to me like there should be a state-wide LEO "hotline" that could be run through the LEO's dispatcher or on their laptops that would allow them to chat live with state-level "experts" on issues they don't commonly deal with to ensure they are getting the right info...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the subject of concealed carry be big enough that LEOs would know the laws about it? I'm really new to carrying and it really erks me that IF I had not joined this forum and I were to be pulled over by a LEO telling me the same thing, I would've probably said sorry and basically admitted that I was wrong! Needless to say, I am very glad that I'm spending time reading through these topics to familiarize myself with the "actual" law.

Yikes! :shock:
 

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yung1s said:
bane said:
... it seems to me like there should be a state-wide LEO "hotline" that could be run through the LEO's dispatcher or on their laptops that would allow them to chat live with state-level "experts" on issues they don't commonly deal with to ensure they are getting the right info...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the subject of concealed carry be big enough that LEOs would know the laws about it?
I can't tell you from actual experience of mine... but you will find quite a number of incidents from members here that can tell you that unfortunately not all LEO's ARE all that well trained on CC... sad, but it seems it's true.
 

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It may be a good idea to carry a copy of the firearms laws under your seat. I used to be into the off-roading scene quite a bit, and most of us carried a copy of the lift and tire laws so as not to get harrassed by cops not knowing the law. If you can point out the section of the Utah code that says you're legal, it would be hard for an officer to argue with you. He'd get his education, you wouldn't get a ticket. Now if I would just take my own advice...
 
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