[Outsider]

Okay, I'm not dumb enough to do this (yet) but I went and had an interview with someone at the Orem Police Department. They had a sign on their door that said "NO FIREARMS BEYOND THIS POINT" and then gave an ordinance or something on it. I don't remember the code or anything like that, but from reading the Utah Criminal Code and my CFP class it doesn't make sense how they could make such a law. So I'm just wondering if anyone has any insight on this.

 

[apollosmith]

76-8-311.1 defines a "law enforcement facility" as any building owner, leased, or operated by law enforcement. It also states that "A person in charge of a... law enforcement... facility may establish secure areas". So, yes, a person (no idea who that would be) can post signs and thus make the police station a secure area. And 76-10-523.5 states that even with a CFP, you cannot enter a secure facility.

The little kicker in 76-8-311.1 is that there must be provisions at these secure areas for storing weapons. The question is then if the police station has no place for you to securely store your weapon, then is it in violation of this section. And if it is, then it is not a secure facility at all. If you want to be the guinea pig on this go ahead, but it is a 3rd degree felony if convicted and you'd lose your guns and voting rights forever. So, by my interpretation, if there's a prominent notice on a police station, it's secure and no concealed weapons are allowed.

 

[Outsider]

So if I OC/CC to Orem PD again they should have a place for me to basically "check" my firearm until my business there is done?

 

[GeneticsDave]

They should have means to secure your firearm while you are visiting inside. I would not enter past the main doors without asking about this, you'd hate to be charged with something.

 

[Outsider]

I'll call Captain Conner and ask him.

 

[Paul]

I have carried into the offices of local PD and sheriffs office. In fact the Sheriff's office is also at the jail complex. There are no signs anywhere indicating no guns. At the sheriffs office / Jail complex, it is very clearly marked when you are entering the secure portion of the building up until that point, I am simply in the lobby and not in a secure or illegal place to carry. At the local PD office, the first time I went there, I noticed a sign at the door that also said COURT so the first time I went in, I left my gun in my car. When I got in I simply asked them if I was actually in the COURT and if I could carry. They told me I was fine to carry as the COURT was in a different part of the building.

My advice is to ASK. No one is going to get upset over you asking.

 

[apollosmith]

My advice is to ASK. No one is going to get upset over you asking.

+1. If you check item 5 in 76-8-311.1 it indicates that if you follow the "facility's rule or policy" then it is a defense if you are charged. In other words, if somebody gives you permission, you are good to go even if they have the signs, etc.

If the lobby area of the offices are not actually the secure area, then I would ask them to move the signs to the beginning of the secure area (jail, court, etc.) where they belong. This is what happened at the airport and the efforts of some here resulted in the signs on the doors being removed. The only difference is that the law allows an entire police station can be designated as secure, whereas only secure portions of an airport can be designated so.

 

[ian husford]

Okay, I'm not dumb enough to do this (yet) . . .

Are you saying that you are becoming . . . dumber? Isn't that the wrong direction? :huh:

ian

 

[Outsider]

Okay, I'm not dumb enough to do this (yet) . . .

Are you saying that you are becoming . . . dumber? Isn't that the wrong direction? :huh:

ian

It was suppose to be a :lol3: :lolbang: :ROFL: :wink: comment.

 

[ian husford]

It was suppose to be a :lol3: :lolbang: :ROFL: :wink: comment.

Oh, sarcasm. Just like mine. :ROFL:

You know I am just kidding around, right?

ian (who is hoping he just didn't start a war)

 

[GeneticsDave]

Oh it's on! Bring it!!!! :lolbang:

 

[ian husford]

Oh it's on! Bring it!!!! :lolbang:

So! You want a war?!! :tank:

Oh, hang on, my howitzer misfired. :huh: Let me get my pea shooter. Now where did that thing go?

ian

 

[Cinhil]

I have carried in the Salt Lake Sheriff's Office on 3300 S and about 9th West(?). I went in the back door, I guess, after two officers walked out & held the door for me. There were no signs posted here. I had taken the bus there and it was the closest entrance on a rainy day. Of course I was wearing my old Boy Scout Campaign hat, which looks fairly military, or close to a police officers hat. I think they thought I was off duty and coming in on my day off.
Anyway, I went in and took care of the business at hand on the second floor where I was identifying a criminal for assault. When done I was directed more or less to exit through the "Front" doors. Since you must normally park in the back of the building I would have normally thought that to be its front, rather than walking 1/4 mile around the building to enter it. As I was exiting I saw a person handing over a weapon and getting a receipt for it. At this point I saw a small sign on the door, and another at the "reception" desk? As I was leaving I didn't worry as the whole building had not been posted, or in other words, there were not signs on all entrances as required by law. I am certain I did no wrong, but it s easy to see how someone could be either confused, or be accosted for carrying inside a Sheriff's facility if it is not in compliance.
If one enters these establishments infrequently it is even easier to understand the problem. We who do lawfully carry can only do so much, and we do. When these places are not properly marked we cannot, nor should we be blamed if discovered as it was their negligence which caused the "infraction" in the first place.
I say, always be cautious and look as best you can, by law each & every entrance must be marked--therein lies our saving grace.

 

[UTOC-45-44]

76-8-311.1 defines a "law enforcement facility" as any building owner, leased, or operated by law enforcement. It also states that "A person in charge of a... law enforcement... facility may establish secure areas". So, yes, a person (no idea who that would be) can post signs and thus make the police station a secure area. And 76-10-523.5 states that even with a CFP, you cannot enter a secure facility.

The little kicker in 76-8-311.1 is that there must be provisions at these secure areas for storing weapons. The question is then if the police station has no place for you to securely store your weapon, then is it in violation of this section. And if it is, then it is not a secure facility at all. If you want to be the guinea pig on this go ahead, but it is a 3rd degree felony if convicted and you'd lose your guns and voting rights forever. So, by my interpretation, if there's a prominent notice on a police station, it's secure and no concealed weapons are allowed.

LEO offices are just like the Airport.

ANY signs at the ENTERANCE...ARE illegal.

If you are in the lobby and similar areas you are OK. It's beyond "the Buzzer" are you should be worried about. "Metal detector" Areas.

TJ

P.S Call Clark Aposhian if you guys are in doubt. His Ph # is 801-560-4836 or Mitch Vilos Ph # is 801-560-7117 D.S

 

[Outsider]

76-8-311.1 defines a "law enforcement facility" as any building owner, leased, or operated by law enforcement. It also states that "A person in charge of a... law enforcement... facility may establish secure areas". So, yes, a person (no idea who that would be) can post signs and thus make the police station a secure area. And 76-10-523.5 states that even with a CFP, you cannot enter a secure facility.

The little kicker in 76-8-311.1 is that there must be provisions at these secure areas for storing weapons. The question is then if the police station has no place for you to securely store your weapon, then is it in violation of this section. And if it is, then it is not a secure facility at all. If you want to be the guinea pig on this go ahead, but it is a 3rd degree felony if convicted and you'd lose your guns and voting rights forever. So, by my interpretation, if there's a prominent notice on a police station, it's secure and no concealed weapons are allowed.

LEO offices are just like the Airport.

ANY signs at the ENTERANCE...ARE illegal.

If you are in the lobby and similar areas you are OK. It's beyond "the Buzzer" are you should be worried about. "Metal detector" Areas.

TJ

P.S Call Clark Aposhian if you guys are in doubt. His Ph # is 801-560-4836 or Mitch Vilos Ph # is 801-560-7117 D.S

It said "Beyond This Point" so I'm sure as long as I was right outside the doors I'll be fine. I checked out UHP - Orem and they didn't have anything like that. Maybe because they are a state entity or what not.