As far as I know, while you are in a company vehicle or even on the clock, you are held responsible for your company's policy (as far as your job goes). But it doesn't really matter what company policy is anyways. In Utah your employer may terminate your employment for almost any reason (they don't have to give you a reason AFAIK). If you could possibly get a job elsewhere I would say stick with your current job and carry anyways (just deep conceal) and don't tell anyone that you carry. If someone, somehow found out, you can get another job. Don't ask, don't tell seems to be the best option with employers here in Utah (Federal employees should not follow this advice or they will violate federal laws).
carrying at work
I work at a day center for disabled people, and in the employee handbook ,it clearly states that no firearms are allowed in the building. I beleive that the reason behind this is because some of the disabled people that we provide services for are prone to sudden violent, behavior and quite often have to be physically restrained. These people are kept in a separate area from the ones who are calm and rational.
I spend a good majority of my day with the people who are able to be out and about in the community. I pick them up from the building in the morning, in a company vehicle, and take them out to their places of employment, usually city parks, and make sure that they do what their job requires. My question is if it would be legal for me to carry concealed once I had left the building, or is the company policy against firearms still in effect because i am on the clock, even tho I am not in the building?
I spend a good majority of my day with the people who are able to be out and about in the community. I pick them up from the building in the morning, in a company vehicle, and take them out to their places of employment, usually city parks, and make sure that they do what their job requires. My question is if it would be legal for me to carry concealed once I had left the building, or is the company policy against firearms still in effect because i am on the clock, even tho I am not in the building?
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Just to clarify what Dave said, your company's policy has no legal force behind it. Violating company policy is not a crime, though it could get you fired.
The exception is that Utah law does specify that it's illegal to carry in the secure area of a mental hospital. I'm not sure if that would apply to the one area of your workplace or not.
The exception is that Utah law does specify that it's illegal to carry in the secure area of a mental hospital. I'm not sure if that would apply to the one area of your workplace or not.
I am waiting for my permit so this point is moot for the present; however, I am wrestling with the ramifications once I have permit in hand. My employer of 25+ years has a 'no weapons' policy. I have read the policy and it states that those employees who have a CFP will be provided a lock-box to secure their weapon while on duty. The tone is such that my weapon will not be tolerated and the lock box is a stop-gap measure until I can take it home once and for all. I do not want to jeopardize my livelihood or my pension. I have a family to consider. At the same time I feel this policy is wrong-headed.swillden said:Just to clarify what Dave said, your company's policy has no legal force behind it. Violating company policy is not a crime, though it could get you fired.
The exception is that Utah law does specify that it's illegal to carry in the secure area of a mental hospital. I'm not sure if that would apply to the one area of your workplace or not.
Additionally, I am a lay leader in my church, which also has a no weapon policy. I currently spend an average of 20 hours a week at the church meetinghouse. I find myself in a quandry now of anticipating carrying (concealed), once my permit comes. (I can hear TJ gnashing in the background now :wink: ) and yet I have restraints based on work and church policy. I have a locked case in my vehicle which I plan on using to store my weapon when I can't carry. I guess that is going to be the compromise here. I understand the issue here is law vs. policy. As regards my church, I feel I would be hypocritical in carrying concealed on church property in view of church policy. I feel obligated to support the policy.
It seems my best option is to become an activist as it were and to lobby my employer and church to help educate about this important matter. Isn't it intersting how this hobby has taken on a life of its own. Mind you I'm not complaining! I'm just prone to philosophising from time to time.
The clients who spend their day in the secure area exhibit some really bizarre behaviors, but they do get assessments by licenced behavior specialists regularly, and if they are assessed as being too much of a risk to the people around them, whether it be other clients or the staff, then they are moved to more secure facilities. Because of that, I dont think that our building could be categorized as a mental hospital.
That's actually rather supportive of them. Many employers completely ban weapons not only in the building, etc., but even prohibit them from being stored in employees' personal vehicles if parked on company property. For many people that effectively makes them unable to defend themselves from the time they leave home in the morning until they get home in the evening.farma said:My employer of 25+ years has a 'no weapons' policy. I have read the policy and it states that those employees who have a CFP will be provided a lock-box to secure their weapon while on duty.
Providing lockboxes indicates an unusual level of tolerance.
It sounds to me like you have two choices (when you get your permit). You can carry very deeply concealed, on the theory that what they don't know won't hurt them, or you can follow their policies and keep your gun locked in their box or in your car while on duty. Only you can make this choice, you have to weigh the likelihood of getting made even with a deep concealment holster against the likelihood of needing to defend yourself and make a call. Or find another job, but it sounds like you've ruled that out.
I don't have to worry about this issue since although my employer prohibits weapons in the office, I work from home.
Lots of us struggle with this. Again there's a choice to be made, though the stakes are a little different. Carrying in a prohibited church in Utah is illegal, but it's only an infraction, like a moving violation, so getting caught would just result in a minor fine. You wouldn't even lose your CFP. Then there's the other issue you raised, which is that if you believe the church leadership speaks with authority, and they've chosen to prohibit guns, is it wrong of you to go against that policy? And there's the question of how likely it is that you'll need your gun at church.Additionally, I am a lay leader in my church, which also has a no weapon policy. I currently spend an average of 20 hours a week at the church meetinghouse.
Personally, I don't carry in church. If I happen to forget sometime and walk in the building with my weapon still in the holster, I won't sweat it too much, and if I ever feel prompted to carry I certainly will, but I don't carry.
Like many issues around carrying a deadly weapon, these are very personal questions and only you can answer them.
The law prohibits BCI from suspending or revoking your permit based on the conviction of a single infraction of a gun law. It doesn't prohibit it upon a second one.swillden said:...
Carrying in a prohibited church in Utah is illegal, but it's only an infraction, like a moving violation, so getting caught would just result in a minor fine. You wouldn't even lose your CFP.
...
When the time comes, YOU will have to decide. As in all decisions we need to be SMART when we CARRY.farma said:I am waiting for my permit so this point is moot for the present; however, I am wrestling with the ramifications once I have permit in hand. My employer of 25+ years has a 'no weapons' policy. I have read the policy and it states that those employees who have a CFP will be provided a lock-box to secure their weapon while on duty. The tone is such that my weapon will not be tolerated and the lock box is a stop-gap measure until I can take it home once and for all. I do not want to jeopardize my livelihood or my pension. I have a family to consider. At the same time I feel this policy is wrong-headed.swillden said:Just to clarify what Dave said, your company's policy has no legal force behind it. Violating company policy is not a crime, though it could get you fired.
The exception is that Utah law does specify that it's illegal to carry in the secure area of a mental hospital. I'm not sure if that would apply to the one area of your workplace or not.
Additionally, I am a lay leader in my church, which also has a no weapon policy. I currently spend an average of 20 hours a week at the church meetinghouse. I find myself in a quandry now of anticipating carrying (concealed), once my permit comes. (I can hear TJ gnashing in the background now :wink: ) and yet I have restraints based on work and church policy. I have a locked case in my vehicle which I plan on using to store my weapon when I can't carry. I guess that is going to be the compromise here. I understand the issue here is law vs. policy. As regards my church, I feel I would be hypocritical in carrying concealed on church property in view of church policy. I feel obligated to support the policy.
It seems my best option is to become an activist as it were and to lobby my employer and church to help educate about this important matter. Isn't it intersting how this hobby has taken on a life of its own. Mind you I'm not complaining! I'm just prone to philosophising from time to time.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic ... 30#p184030
Tarzan
LOL... I like your "subtle" hints. But for those who still don't get it: Smart carry and unless you have a regular habit of dropping your pants at work you should be fine.Tarzan1888 said:When the time comes, YOU will have to decide. As in all decisions we need to be SMART when we CARRY.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic ... 30#p184030
Tarzan
:ROFL:Smart carry and unless you have a regular habit of dropping your pants at work you should be fine.
I appreciate the pointers. Obviously there's more than one way to skin a cat. My mind is being opened to the possibilities! Thanks again.When the time comes, YOU will have to decide. As in all decisions we need to be SMART when we CARRY.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic ... 30#p184030
Tarzan
Remember, If a tree falls in the forest and no one sees it, did it really fall? :crown:farma said:I appreciate the pointers. Obviously there's more than one way to skin a cat. My mind is being opened to the possibilities! Thanks again.tarzan1888 said:When the time comes, YOU will have to decide. As in all decisions we need to be SMART when we CARRY.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic ... 30#p184030
Tarzan
Tarzan
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