[luckystrike]

I'm curious as to if I can carry onto an Indian reservation or not. I do a lot of fishing and have a license to do that on their land but I'm very unclear as to whether or not I am allowed to conceal carry.

Is there anyone who can help me with this question?

Thanks

 

[Car Knocker]

You would have to contact the authorities of each reservation you intend to be on to determine the specific rules/regulations/laws that apply to that property. In a way, reservations are much like states; their laws can vary drastically.

 

[GeneticsDave]

According to Mitch Vilos' understanding of United States Code: Title 25 -

I couldn't find anything in Title 25 prohibiting non-Indians from taking firearms onto an Indian reservation. Furthermore, a landmark United States Supreme Court case Oliphant v. Suquamish Tribe, 435 U.S. 191, 212, 98 S.Ct. 1011, 1022-23, 55 L.Ed.2d 209 (1978) held that the Indian tribes had no criminal jurisdiction over non-Indians. This rule of law has been cited by many federal and state courts, some as recently at 2006. I have discussed this issue with the "Indian Law" guru at Utah's U.S. Attorney's office (unofficially) who indicated he knew of no prohibitions or prosecutions of non-Indians having firearms on tribal lands. Based upon these findings (or lack of findings), I can only conclude that if you are simply passing through Indian lands on public highways, if you otherwise comply with Utah and federal law pertaining to vehicle carry (as described in this chapter and chapters VII and VIII), you should not be harassed.

The preceding quote was taken from Utah Gun Law, 3rd Edition by Attorney Mitch Vilos, page 321.

I encourage you to pick up a copy, it is an excellent read and it goes to help a man who works very hard to defend our gun rights.

Keep it safe, keep it secure, keep it quiet. You shouldn't have any problems on Indian tribal land.

 

[luckystrike]

Thanks for the input and thanks for the advise. I just went and picked me up a copy of Utah gun laws. It's a big book! At least It'll give me something to do now that the white fluffy stuff has trapped me indoors :|

 

[Guest]

I also remember reading articles of non-Indians who have committed rape and assault on the reservation and the tribes were powerless to prosecute them....

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/26/re ... es-on.html

... it sucks that justice falls apart when crossing the Tribe/State boundary. But it also means that tribes would probably not pick a fight with you if you don't pick a fight with them.

 

[bane]

The research I conducted into this very issue when I traveled up to Washington state a few months ago revealed to me much of the same info. already mentioned here.

I specifically found the 3 tribes closest to where I was visiting and looked up their legal codes in reference to gun carry laws. They all specifically said that if you had a valid CC permit issued by any state in the union and followed all state and federal laws that CC was completely legal on their land.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the uniformity I observed was due to the legal findings noted by Mitch Vilos in that earlier quote above... that is to say, the tribes recognize they can't trump Fed. and State law on this issue and so have specifically written into their laws that it's valid in order to avoid confusion. But that's just a guess.

I found it fairly easy to locate these tribal laws online, so I suspect with a little bit of work you can find the laws for the tribes in question in your regard as well. That way you would be able to be CERTAIN (which is so VERY important!)

 

[xmirage2kx]

I can't speak for everywhere, but I lived on a reservation in AZ for a while and the Rez I stayed on could have just about any rules/regulations/laws/etc that they felt like. The rules even could vary by person.

 

[Guest]

The rules even could vary by person.

When discussing the custody of my Native American foster-daughter, my attorney said: "The tribal courts tend to be very arbitrary."

 

[luckystrike]

I made a call to Duchesne yesterday and inquired about carrying. They told me that it was not allowed. They told me that it had to be in a locked case at all times while on the reservation. It can't be anywhere in the cab of the vehicle nor locked in the glove box. They seem pretty strict when it comes to carrying on their land.

 

[bane]

LuckyStrike,

I don't think the person you spoke to told you correctly (mind you, I'm not an attorney, an Indian, nor do I have some particular knowledge of Indian affairs... I just did some basic research on the internet... you will need to verify and validate the info for yourself, of course)... I went online and found the legal code for the Ute Indian Tribe (located in Duchesne) and found they DO allow carrying of weapons... they DON'T allow for CONCEALED carry, however... and their laws don't state that you CANNOT carry in a car, they simply state that it cannot be a LOADED gun... from what I have read it is perfectly legal to OPEN CARRY "UTAH LOADED".

Here are the parts that seem particularly noteworthy... you can access the rest of their criminal code hereand their entire code here.

 §13-4-112. Weapons Offense.

(1) A person shall be guilty of weapons offense if:

(...)

    (c) he carries a loaded firearm in a vehicle on a public road without lawful authority to do so;

(...)

(3) A firearm or other weapon shall be deemed loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell or projectile in the firing position, except in the case of pistols and revolvers, in which case they shall be deemed loaded when the unexpended cartridge, shell or projectile is in a position that the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.

(...)

§13-4-113. Aggravated Weapons Offense.

(1) A person is guilty of aggravated weapons offense if:

    (a) he carries a dangerous weapon concealed on his person;

(...)

So, it seems pretty clear to me, but of course do your own research... maybe call someone else... their local police(???).

So this prompts another "?"... how does Utah and Federal law look on a person who commits an Indian crime on Indian territory that ISN'T a crime outside of the territory? I mean, obviously you'd have to "do the time" and "pay the man" but what about your RECORD??? I noticed CC'ing on the Ute reservation is a "Class A offense". But clearly that's a Ute Reservation offense. So once you pay and serve your time, does anyone know if the STATE will revoke your CC permit????

 

[Car Knocker]

Not necessarily germane but a felony committed in a foreign country can affect gun rights under federal law. As I recall, the foreign felony doesn't have to even be a crime in the U.S. to affect one's rights.

 

[luckystrike]

Thanks for the info bane. I think I'm going to look into that a little further. I'll post what I find.

 

[Outsider]

Wish I had some insight but I'm already Indian and I believe the Point No Point Treaty allows me to carry there.