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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Went to Wal-Mart tonight, arrgh! Bought a 12 pack of beer and a value pack of 12 gauge shot gun shells for my upcoming camping trip in the Uintahs. I showed my CFP as id like I usually do and to my surprise she hands it back to me and says it is not a valid form of ID. I asked, Why Not? She said that it had to be a drivers license or military id. I asked her, what if I don't drive or was not in the military, which I do and am in the military. She responded, then I need to see a state id... WHAT??? :dunno: I said, I just handed you a state issued id, issued by the same department that issues the drivers license. At this point I could tell that she was not going to budge so I relunctantly handed her my UT state id card.

As soon as I got to my car I called the manager (# on receipt) and asked what was valid id. She said the same thing, so at least they are on the same page with their ridiculous policy.

Has anyone else had this problem? I show my CFP as id all the time at many other places and have at Wal-Mart before. Is this new, anyone else had this problem? I am on my last leg with Wal_mart, stupid super corperation, still their ammo is cheap. :disgusted: :bat: :bat: :bat:
 

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Actually it is not a vaild form of id when purchasing alcohol. this is right from the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Controls website. She was doing as Utah State law requires

You must be at least 21 years of age to purchase, possess, or be provided with any alcoholic beverage. Acceptable forms of identification include: a valid passport, a valid driver's license or military identification card with a date of birth and a photo, or an official Utah identification card issued by the Utah Department of Public Safety.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Gotta Love it! I can carry a concealed firearm but cannot use it to purchase a beer. Thanks for the info. Can you direct me to the exact location of the wuote you posted? I am just curious. Thanks again!
 

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While doing Security at night clubs for the past 12 years, I have checked a lot of IDs. I haven't had a lot of people use their CFP's as a form of ID but I have noticed more people using them in the past few months. If you look at your Utah Concealed Firearm Permit, guess who's name is at the top? That's right - it's the Department of Public Safety. So a Utah CFP permit is an official Utah identification card issued by the Utah Department of Public Safety. :thumbsup: It has a picture, your birthdate, and it's state-issued, so I'm not sure what Wal-Mart's problem is.
 

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My mom was not allowed to use her CFP as ID when she was withdrawing a significant amount of money from her bank account. :dunno:

I personally don't understand the problem. As was mentioned, it's a form of picture ID, issued by the state with the name of the state on it and everything - with basically the same information as what's on the DL, too.
 

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I agree -- it is obviously official ID issued by the State agency intended to issue such ID's.

I think it's funny that they are still accepting military ID's as legitimate -- about 5 years ago the military started issuing new ID's that do NOT contain birthdates, weight, height, or eye/hair color. I'm not sure why they made that change, but they did. It's called a "Smart ID" if I remember correctly. As far as I know, they still haven't switched for dependents and retirees, so I guess those would still be valid. But we were told at the time of issue that they no longer counted as legitimate legal ID b/c they did not contain the descriptive components like how tall you are.
 

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I just called the DABC (Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control) and talked to Keith. I asked him if a CFP is a valid form of ID for purchasing alcohol. He said no. I read him the description from their website that says "Acceptable forms of identification include: a valid passport, a valid driver's license or military identification card with a date of birth and a photo, or an official Utah identification card issued by the Utah Department of Public Safety.". Then I pointed out that a CFP is issued by the Department of Public Safety. He said that the CFP is not an identification card, it's a permit. So, as much as we disagree with them, Wal-Mart was following the law as far as the DABC is concerned.
 

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Well, under that definition, a driver's license doesn't qualify either. It's main purpose is to denote that you are LICENSED to drive, just like we are PERMITTED (or licensed) to carry a firearm. You don't go to the DMV to get an ID, you go to get a license. The CFP has the same information as the license, and is accepted by many other agencies as acceptable ID.

The only true forms of identification we have are ID cards and PASSPORTS, neither of which grant any abilities (except international travel by the passport).

That answer is bull-poop.
 

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guardianspirit said:
He said that the CFP is not an identification card, it's a permit.
.... oh, sorta like a Driver's License is not an identification card either, it's a license... ??? :huh:
 

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bane said:
guardianspirit said:
He said that the CFP is not an identification card, it's a permit.
.... oh, sorta like a Driver's License is not an identification card either, it's a license... ??? :huh:
Great point! Just like the great point you made about social security cards not to be used for ID when we discussed this matter here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=203
 

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Ruger Collector said:
bane said:
guardianspirit said:
He said that the CFP is not an identification card, it's a permit.
.... oh, sorta like a Driver's License is not an identification card either, it's a license... ??? :huh:
Great point! Just like the great point you made about social security cards not to be used for ID when we discussed this matter here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=203
Man, you have a GREAT memory! ;)
 

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Even though a drivers license isn't an ID card they specifically state that they accept it. Ever notice that your cfp doesn't have your signature on it?
 

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Ramiguy said:
Even though a drivers license isn't an ID card they specifically state that they accept it. Ever notice that your cfp doesn't have your signature on it?
Ahhhhhh..... I hadn't considered that one. Good point.
 

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First, why are you using your CFP as identification in the first place? Why advertise?

Second, the code that deals with this is section 32A, the 'Alcoholic Beverage Control Act'. Section 32A-1-105 defines the valid forms of ID among other things. It specifically lists a Utah Driver License as valid id for the purpose of purchasing alcohol, so I guess that it is more than a license. It also lists the 'Utah Identification Card' specifically issued under Title 53, Chapter 3, Part 8. I believe that this is the card that says 'Utah Identification' at the top.

Valid ID includes:
(45) (a) "Proof of age" means:
(i) an identification card;
(ii) an identification that:
(A) is substantially similar to an identification card;
(B) is issued in accordance with the laws of a state other than Utah in which the identification is issued;
(C) includes date of birth; and
(D) has a picture affixed;
(iii) a valid driver license certificate that:
(A) includes date of birth;
(B) has a picture affixed; and
(C) is issued:
(I) under Title 53, Chapter 3, Uniform Driver License Act; or
(II) in accordance with the laws of the state in which it is issued;
(iv) a military identification card that:
(A) includes date of birth; and
(B) has a picture affixed; or
(v) a valid passport.
(b) "Proof of age" does not include a driving privilege card issued in accordance with Section 53-3-207.

You'll notice that a CFP is not listed. The question should by why not and how can you get it added to the acceptable 'proof of age' if that is important to you.

(24) "Identification card" means an identification card issued under Title 53, Chapter 3, Part 8
 

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Good points by both Rami and Althor.
And I agree with Althor, I see no reason to use your CFP as ID if you have other.

However, by my reading of Althor's citation, it seems to me that a CFP *SHOULD* be acceptable:
(ii) an identification that:
(A) is substantially similar to an identification card
Or are we arguing that a CFP isn't *ANY FORM* of "identification"... which, if that's the case... what's the point of even having it in I.D.-form... since that would serve no purpose to "identify" us as licensed CC'ers... ??? :dunno:
 

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bane said:
Good points by both Rami and Althor.
And I agree with Althor, I see no reason to use your CFP as ID if you have other.

However, by my reading of Althor's citation, it seems to me that a CFP *SHOULD* be acceptable:
(ii) an identification that:
(A) is substantially similar to an identification card
Or are we arguing that a CFP isn't *ANY FORM* of "identification"... which, if that's the case... what's the point of even having it in I.D.-form... since that would serve no purpose to "identify" us as licensed CC'ers... ??? :dunno:
I agree that there is definitly a gray area here, By all the standards set for a valid picture ID the permit should be valid. They just choose not to accept it, more proof that government doesn't have to make sense!
 

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bane said:
guardianspirit said:
He said that the CFP is not an identification card, it's a permit.
.... oh, sorta like a Driver's License is not an identification card either, it's a license... ??? :huh:
I wonder if I can get a Donor sticker for my CFP? :huh:

:ROFL: :lolbang: :ROFL:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
bane said:
I agree -- it is obviously official ID issued by the State agency intended to issue such ID's.

I think it's funny that they are still accepting military ID's as legitimate -- about 5 years ago the military started issuing new ID's that do NOT contain birthdates, weight, height, or eye/hair color. I'm not sure why they made that change, but they did. It's called a "Smart ID" if I remember correctly.
Update from 5 years ago.......

The birthdate is printed on the ID card, everything else has been removed. It is called a smart card, and we use it about 20+ times per day to access encrypted info.

I guess the only flaw to the smart card is me using it......... :ROFL:
 

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It just proves that the government is incapable of following its own rules and decides to change them as it sees fit. And some want to put them in charge of more things in our lives....I think not!!!! ARG!!!!
 
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