[Retire Early]

This is my first post to your fine site, so please don't flame me quite yet...

I have a question that I haven't been able to find an answer to and it looks like this community is a great resource.

I know that Utah cities and other government agencies can't add firearm laws because of Utah's Uniform Firearm Laws (63-98-102 aka preemption) , but can they add laws regarding other weapons? Can a city make daggers, nunchaku or other weapons illegal, with or without a CFP?

Obviously there aren't lawyers awaiting my request, I'm just curious of your opinions on the matter.

Here is an example of Park City's code that isn't legal as far as the firearms are concerned, but what about the rest? Many other cities seem to have similar clauses. I've read in other threads that automatic knives are legal in Utah since the law is silent, but can the legality vary from city to city where the law is not silent and not apparently preempted?

Thanks in advance.

http://www.parkcity.org/government/code ... tle_8.html

8- 6- 3. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS.

It shall be unlawful for any person except a peace officer, to carry any brass knuckles, firearms, daggers, stiletto, nunchaku stick, or any other instrument or object capable of causing death or serious bodily injury concealed upon his person.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except a peace officer, to carry concealed on his person, any dangerous weapon with the intent or the purpose to use the same to harm, maim, or injure another person, animal, or thing. For the purpose of this subsection:

(A) Dangerous weapon shall mean any item that, in the manner of its use or intended use, is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury; and

(B) In construing whether or not an object or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon, the character of the wound produced, if any; and the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used or intended to be used, are factors which the court shall take into account in deciding the question.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

I don't know the answer to your question. Maybe others can chime in.

However, please take a moment to introduce yourself properly in the Introduce Yourself section. That's a forum rule, ya know.

 

[Retire Early]

Thanks for the reminder, my intro has been added.

 

[Paul]

Hmmm. I don't know the answer either but to quote the law you quoted:

"It shall be unlawful for any person, except a peace officer, to carry concealed on his person, any dangerous weapon with the intent or the purpose to use the same to harm, maim, or injure another person, animal, or thing. For the purpose of this subsection: "

The word INTENT seems to me to be the key word. You may be able to argue that you were not carrying with the intent to harm, blah blah blah, but you are carrying with the intent to legally defend yourself.

This may be a law they use to bust gang bangers or people who are carrying with the INTENT to cause harm.

 

[GeneticsDave]

Well your question is a good one, considering the municipal code of Park City which you cited. According to the Utah State Code section 76-10-500, otherwise known as the Uniform Law, citizens are guaranteed the "individual right to keep and bear arms". While the code then goes on to discuss firearms and nothing else it is apparently clear that arms are not restricted to firearms. You can keep knives and other weapons in your house, but can you carry them around? Well, if you are a concealed firearm permit holder you can conceal a "dangerous weapon". So yes, if you had your permit you could conceal whatever you want provided that it was a legal item.

It is clear that Park City Municipal code 8- 6- 3. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS is in violation of state code and is not legally sound. The reason for this is that it does not include a preemption for permit holders and only allows deadly/dangerous weapons to be carried by law enforcement (aka a police state).

You may notice however, that Park City Municipal code 8- 6- 5. CARRYING LOADED FIREARM IN VEHICLE, ON STREET, OR IN PROHIBITED AREA, does give preemption to permit holders with it's statement " Unless otherwise authorized by law". It seems that this code pertains only to firearms, but that would be incorrect as per state code and constitution.

Sections 8-6-1 and 2 are mainly dealing with possession with intent to use or discharge a deadly weapon within city limits. It's worded poorly for the idea I think it is trying to put across, but that's effectually what it says.

I wouldn't worry about municipal code, it is trumped by state code and should be rewritten to better align with the laws of the state, by requisite of the uniform law it must comply.

So basically the answer is no, the city can't override state laws. However, it is important to recognize that concealing a dangerous weapon without a permit is against the law, be it a dagger, brass knuckles or a firearm.

 

[Mr. Magnum]

I know that Utah cities and other government agencies can't add firearm laws because of Utah's Uniform Firearm Laws (63-98-102 aka preemption) , but can they add laws regarding other weapons? Can a city make daggers, nunchaku or other weapons illegal, with or without a CFP?

Obviously I'm no lawyer so take it as opinion only.
The way I read it, the city code does not outlaw daggers, nunchaku, ext.
It merely disallows the concealing thereof.

So if you really must pack nunchaku. Just be sure they are visible.

Besides. If you stick them down the front of your pants your just going to look like you've got super saggy dangly janglers. :wink: :ROFL:

 

[rdoggsilva]

Was looking at Cheaper than Dirt the other night, and saw that they can not ship slingshots to Salt Lake City.

 

[Narcisist]

So here's a concern; Laws are all about words and phrases. So when I look at my CFP it says, "firearms" which to me means specifically "firearms." It's not a concealed "weapon" permit. Do you think the specific wording could cause legal issues if someone were concealing a dagger?

 

[Guest]

So yes, if you had your permit you could conceal whatever you want provided that it was a legal item.

Legal items in this state include SMGs, AOWs, Rifles, none of which are legal to carry with your CFP, so I beg to differ. if a short sword and a .50 A&E are legal there is still more likelihood of being persecuted and painted evil than say a PPK and swiss army knife.

Just food for thought

 

[usSiR]

This has been brought up before, recently.
Park city's laws are illegal I emailed the mayor and city council about it and they refered it to their city lawyers. I haven't had time to recheck it and can't now because I'm using my phone, but there should be a post called park city.

Their laws were saying guns were illegal in the city and you can't carry there.

But if you want to carry other things just do it withing the laws, lol. But no rubber flappers, hahaha

 

[bane]

So here's a concern; Laws are all about words and phrases. So when I look at my CFP it says, "firearms" which to me means specifically "firearms." It's not a concealed "weapon" permit. Do you think the specific wording could cause legal issues if someone were concealing a dagger?

True. But if you look at the CFP *LAWS* it is clear that it refers to "dangerous weapons" and not only "firearms" -- it's a crazy and misleading wording that we have adopted in calling it a Concealed Firearms Permit. Also there is 1 or 2 recent Utah Senate recordings where people like Atty. General Shurtleff discuss this very issue -- and it's obvious they are saying that calling it a CFP is just a misnomer.

 

[divegeek]

So yes, if you had your permit you could conceal whatever you want provided that it was a legal item.

Legal items in this state include SMGs, AOWs, Rifles, none of which are legal to carry with your CFP, so I beg to differ. if a short sword and a .50 A&E are legal there is still more likelihood of being persecuted and painted evil than say a PPK and swiss army knife.

Huh? Why is it not legal to carry any of that stuff with a CFP (assuming you possess it legally)?

I can't find anything in the laws about what kind of dangerous weapons you can conceal with a CFP.

 

[bane]

So yes, if you had your permit you could conceal whatever you want provided that it was a legal item.

Legal items in this state include SMGs, AOWs, Rifles, none of which are legal to carry with your CFP, so I beg to differ. if a short sword and a .50 A&E are legal there is still more likelihood of being persecuted and painted evil than say a PPK and swiss army knife.

Huh? Why is it not legal to carry any of that stuff with a CFP (assuming you possess it legally)?

I can't find anything in the laws about what kind of dangerous weapons you can conceal with a CFP.

I agree with Swil.... I've never seen these sorts of exemptions anywhere in the laws...

 

[Jeff Johnson]

To know exactly what your CFP gives you, check out this thread:

What does a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP) give you?

There is no guesswork involved. It's all there in the statutes.

 

[Tarzan1888]

Thank you Jeff.

Tarzan