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Cocked and Locked?

9367 Views 41 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  Tarzan1888, 
tapehoser
I know I've discussed this a myriad of times with other folks on other shooting forums and such, but thought I'd get some opinions here on the matter.

I am a father of 4 children, ages 11-4. They have all been taught about gun safety and have all shot .22 cal rifles and a few small handguns (except the youngest...she turns 4 in June). They have all seen the effects of bullets on pumpkins and water bottles and understand well the effects that a bullet can have on things. (read: people)

But I digress.

About 80% of the concealed firearms permit holders I speak with are vehemently in favor of keeping their guns cocked, locked, and ready for action. By that I mean that they have a round in the chamber and the only action by them required to fire the gun is to pull the trigger. They also feel that a concealed firearm is not worth a tinker's darn if it is not hot and ready to be fired. Some even go so far as to say, "Why carry at all, if it's not hot and ready?" Or, "You might as well be carrying a little metal stick in your holster."

A lot of these guys are in law enforcement. Some are in security.

So, while I admit that police officers and security personnel are purposefuly placing themselves in harm's way each and every day, it might behoove them to carry hot and ready, since they might be required to use their weapons 10 times more in their careers than I EVER will in my entire life.

Anyhoo, in talking with these folks, over time, I have seen that a few of them have had what they call "ND's" or "AD's"....Negligent Discharges or Accidental Discharges while in their homes or elsewhere. And every time I hear about them, it stops me in my tracks and makes me re-evaluate my situation at home. Now, if there is one general firearm rule that I follw to a TEE, it is this: Never point a gun in the direction of anything you do not want destroyed. There have been times that I have felt the need to carry 'hot', and have done so safely because I understand my firearm and feel confident in my abilities and in the safeties provided on my gun. But I will freely admit that I rarely carry 'hot'. The ramifications of an 'AD' or 'ND' in my house could be very severe, because there are 5 other people in the home at any given time and a negligent discharge would endanger their lives as well. But again, I cite that firearm rule. When I am altering my weapon from 'hot' to 'not', I am pointing it in a direction that will not endanger and lives.

Now I ask the question: Do you carry hot? Why? Why not? Explain.

Let the games begin.
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Car Knocker
I carry a Kimber UC, cocked and locked. My 4-1/2 y.o. granddaughter is here several days a week and the pistol is either holstered or put away. The 1911 design has redundant safeties and the holsters are designed to keep the thumb safety in the applied position.

I prefer cocked and locked carry for the speed in which the pistol can be deployed and that it can be deployed with only one hand. This would be useful if my weak hand/arm were occupied, injured or fending off an attacker, or if I were using a cane.

I would think there would be a greater chance of accidental or negligent discharge if the carrier were attempting to chamber a round in a stressful situation but, I admit, I have not seen any studies to either prove or disprove this opinion. I can conceive of situations where an attempt to chamber a round might prematurely bring one to the attention of a BG.

I don't think that there's a "one-size-fits-all" mode of carry; a person must do what feels comfortable to him (within the bounds of safety, of course). There is always the possibility of an AD/ND with a firearm, no matter what condition it is carried in. It is up to the user to insure that it does not happen - the ultimate safety device is located between the user's ears.
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U
I always keep my handgun ready to fire, for a number of reasons.

I carry a Springfield XD-40, so there's an indicator that shows whether there's a round chambered, and another indicator that shows whether the firing pin is cocked back. Despite that, I would never want to be in a situation where I had to remember whether or not I'd last left my handgun with a round chambered and ready to fire. The only time it's ever unloaded is when I'm at the range or cleaning it, and at all other times I can be 100% certain of its disposition.

Another reason is that, regardless of the state in which any firearm exists (loaded or unloaded), you should never point it at anything which you would not want to see destroyed (as tapehoser mentioned). I would handle my handgun the same whether I thought it was unloaded or fully loaded and ready to fire, so why not just keep it loaded?

I usually keep my handgun in one of three places at any given time: (1) holstered and on my hip, (2) locked in an electronic quick-access safe, or (3) in my hand going between my hip and the safe. My kids are ages 3 and 6, so safe storage and handling is extremely important in my house, but in my situation leaving the handgun unloaded doesn't make a difference in the manner of handling and storage that I use.
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Udink said:
I always keep my handgun ready to fire, for a number of reasons.

I carry a Springfield XD-40, so there's an indicator that shows whether there's a round chambered, and another indicator that shows whether the firing pin is cocked back. Despite that, I would never want to be in a situation where I had to remember whether or not I'd last left my handgun with a round chambered and ready to fire. The only time it's ever unloaded is when I'm at the range or cleaning it, and at all other times I can be 100% certain of its disposition.

Another reason is that, regardless of the state in which any firearm exists (loaded or unloaded), you should never point it at anything which you would not want to see destroyed (as tapehoser mentioned). I would handle my handgun the same whether I thought it was unloaded or fully loaded and ready to fire, so why not just keep it loaded?

I usually keep my handgun in one of three places at any given time: (1) holstered and on my hip, (2) locked in an electronic quick-access safe, or (3) in my hand going between my hip and the safe. My kids are ages 3 and 6, so safe storage and handling is extremely important in my house, but in my situation leaving the handgun unloaded doesn't make a difference in the manner of handling and storage that I use.
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I have a Glock 23, most of this echo's my situation, though my kids are much older (youngest are 16.) I will always treat my firearms as loaded because they all are, or if stored, I have them broken down - slide removed and such.

Both of my pistols are "In use" either in my finger safe, or on my person. When I am carrying, it is safest of all. I know where it or they are, and I never play with them. They get handled only twice a day, going on, and coming off.

I've never had my Glock in a condition where it will be fired without intention, my holsters cover the trigger, I have even tested Thunderwear and not been able to get to the trigger, though it doesn't ride nicely, so I don't carry it that way.
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Jeff Johnson
I always carry with one in the pipe. My guns are designed to be carried that way. As was stated above, the only time I handle it is when holstering it at the start of the day or unholstering it at the end of the day. My holsters cover the trigger -- the safest place for my gun is in its holster.

Of course, "cocked and locked" is a term most aptly applied to the 1911 type of operating system, since it does indeed have a hammer that can be cocked (usually by racking the slide) and it does have a thumb safety (i.e. locked).

My Glock doesn't cock or lock, but is quite safe to carry.
My SW99 does cock (and has a de-cocker button and a cocked indicator), but has no thumb safety. Both my Glock and SW99 have long trigger pulls for the first shot.

As Don said ... the ultimate safety device is the one between your ears. Don't be distracted or absent-minded when handling your firearm and don't leave it unattended, particularly with children about.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you are comfortable with in your situation. What works for you might not work for me.
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cardo
Hello, I’ve only had my CWP for about a year and a half and so I guess you could say I’m still new. I don’t carry at work, but when ever I’m off work and going to the market, movies, out to eat, or just “out” with my wife I carry. But I don’t carry with one in the chamber. Most of the time I am very self conchs about my gun on my side, (I use a fobus paddle holster) my holster holds my gun high enough that some of my tee-shirts hide it but with most of them, if I’m not pulling my shirt down the tip of the barrel will be peeking out. (is this ok? I’m also concerned about people seeing the outline of a gun under my shirt) this hasn’t been too much of a problem during the winter because I’m wearing jackets and coats, but when summer comes along??? So taking these things in to account and also my current training level (I’m a good shot…just haven’t had any training for stressful situations) I don’t feel comfortable carrying “locked and loaded”. One of the other things that deters me form carrying “Hot” is my holster, it doesn’t have a thumb break so just a good tug will pull it out. If I were to get jumped form behind and were to louse control of my weapon, the few extra seconds it takes to chamber a round (for the bad guy) might give me enough time to react and jab him with my knife or something like that. But If I were to get more handgun training and a more secure holster I would feel more confident carrying my gun locked and loaded. (I carry a Springfield XD9 sub, just so you know)

So there ya go. I’m open to suggestions / criticism so let me know what you think.
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tapehoser
cardo, I carry an XD45 Compact and feel absolutely confident in the gun and the built-in safety mechanisms that prevent it from being fired inadvetantly.

I also trust myself and my skills enough to know that I am capable of handling my gun well. Also, I treat EVERY gun as if it is HOT, with one in the chamber. If you do not feel confident in your holster, I suggest you get a different model. I carry 'hot' oftentimes and do not have a holster with a thumbreak. That does not concern me in the least. In fact, I could run a 5K with my gun and not be concerned in the slightest about it coming loose.

You really should look into getting a better holster and some training to help you deal with those stressful situations that we all fear. Training is what will give you 'muscle memory' for those stressful situations that will enable you to respond properly.
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UtahRSO
Self-defense situations develop in an instant of time. If they took any time at all, we could avoid them, call for help, hide, whatever. So if you really need a firearm, it's a RIGHT NOW thing.

I agree with Jeff, and I carry a round in the chamber. I have a hard time not being in white mode (I keep trying to stay in yellow, but...), so if the worst happens, it's likely I will have no time to be racking the slide.
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tapehoser said:
I ... I have seen that a few of them have had what they call "ND's" or "AD's"....Negligent Discharges or Accidental Discharges ...
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I'm not aware of any "accidental" discharge that was not a violation of the well-known safe gun handling rules. I knew a kid in high school that blew his foot open with a 30-06 while hunting. He never took responsibility for the fact that he ran around with his finger on the trigger. That taught me a big lesson back then.

I have a well-worn Bersa. It's DA/SA so I don't need to carry it cocked. (The safety also decocks.) It's not an ideal sidearm, but it's better than my pocketknife. :D

Far more people die daily in automobiles because of negligence, but that doesn't stop us from putting the key in the ignition.
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tapehoser
I'm not aware of any "accidental" discharge that was not a violation of the well-known safe gun handling rules.
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One of my points exactly. If you obey safe firearm handling rules and are VERY familiar with the workings of your gun, carrying 'hot' should not be an issue.

Another question to y'all: Do you all have gun safes?

I, for one, do NOT have a gun safe. But ALL of my ammunition if kept within a locked cabinet and cannot be accessed by anyone but myself. Heck, you'd have to kill me to get the key away from me as well. Also, for my concealed firearm, I am in the same condition as concealedutah. For 16 hours each day, the weapon is on my person. For those other 8, while I am sleeping, it is close by my side for easy access in those poop-hit-the-fan scenarios.
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Jeff Johnson
Yes. I have a gun safe for long guns, plus a keypad-entry safe for quick access to handguns. I feel more at ease having them locked up (except for the one I carry).
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tapehoser said:
...Do you all have gun safes? ...
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I have one of those rapid-access safes. I don't remember the brand off-hand. The're black, and have the big rubber recesses so you can place your fingers over the buttons in the dark.

I don't have a safe for the old Mauser. It's packed away right now.
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I
I have a couple of the quick action safes like Blackpuma describes--Dosko Sport are mine, but I would not necessarily recommend the kind I have. Each push of a button causes a beep which gives you no method of extracting one silently. I like them because I have small kids--although I don't think they know the safes exist, if somebody finds one and starts monkeying with it, an alarm will sound.
I agree with all that the other posters have said about safe handling, but I remember when I first started to carry and had a 1911, I followed someone's advice to carry cocked and locked with an empty pipe until I got comfortable with the idea that it really wasn't going to spontaneously drop the hammer. It never magically dropped and I started carrying with one in the pipe after that. Although I am comfortable racking against my wallet or the sole of a shoe--a good drill for ever finding yourself without a support side hand--I carry "hot" for the time issue mentioned above and also to avoid the potential attention grabbing sound of the slide racking.
Al
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iampacking said:
I have a couple of the quick action safes like Blackpuma describes--Dosko Sport are mine, but I would not necessarily recommend the kind I have. Each push of a button causes a beep which gives you no method of extracting one silently...
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Look at your instructions again! I am not sure of your model and make, but that describes mine to a "T". My son figured out how to turn off the beep. Mine now opens quietly except for the latch on the door as it opens! Maybe you have the option to turn it off.:wink:

Nice safes though, quick getting into them.
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concealedutah-
I'm waiting for my son to get a little older to be able to figure things like that out for me. That and programming the VCR, fixing the computer......
I bet you're right and there is a way to do it-their website does not have the manual on it, but one day I bet I can find mine.
thanks
al
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T
My main carry piece is a 1911 A1.

It was designed to be caried cocked and locked.

It took me a little getting used to but that is how I carry it as it is the safest way to do so.

My family understands this.
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apollosmith
This was a good thread to bring back to the top. I'm still waiting for my CFP, but in the meantime, I'm carrying at home, practicing at the range, and otherwise becoming more familiar with my guns, all the time focusing primarily on trigger awareness and discipline.

I think good trigger discipline and comfort with your weapons is a must before you decide to carry locked and loaded. I just got an XD-9 which, unlike my Beretta, does not have the thumb safety. I'm not at all worried about this, but do know that I simply need to be very comfortable knowing that I'm not going to go sticking my finger in the trigger guard unless I intend on shooting it RIGHT NOW.

I also strongly agree with the poster above that said that you should always carry your gun in the same state. Switching between locked and loaded when you're alone and an empty chamber when at home is asking for trouble - which is most likely to occur during the transition twice each day.

Regarding bed-side gun safes, what makes/models do ya'll have that you would recommend?
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Jeff Johnson
2
I have a very nice little safe from GunVault. If I recall, I bought it at Gunnies in Orem, but I think I've seen them at Sportsmans Warehouse. I'd bet you could also order one online.



It has finger grooves that you can find in the dark and enter the combo. Very nice.
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natehunts
+1 on the Gunvault. I like mine and can access my guns pretty fast.
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GeneticsDave
2
I also like the GunVault. It looks like they have a new vault with biometric access. I haven't personally tried this one, but I have tried a few other biometric safes and haven't been too impressed. Plus, I just keep thinking that biometric isn't as safe a method as a combination. Let's say you get shot or knocked out by a burglar/criminal. All they would have to do is drag you to the vault and stick your finger on it while you were out. I like the idea of refusing to give up a combo if necessary.

I have a MultiVault Deluxe (left image) downstairs with extra guns and important stuff - it has a light which helps me find my little items buried in the back - very convenient. I keep a basic model MiniVault (right image) upstairs in the bedroom with a ready to go semi-auto and a couple mags. No light in this one, but I wouldn't want one shining at night giving away my location should I require the gun. Anyways, just my two cents. Good luck with your purchase!

P.S. I shopped around a bit for mine. Ended up buying them both from ImpactGuns during a sale they were having. Cabelas in Lehi also has them. I have also seen them online at various resellers for decent prices.
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