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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems a student at one of our Universities decided to open carry ( he has (had)) a CFP. Also he was carrying on his belt a badge with a UT state seal and imprinted Law Enforcement which he is not. He was with in his right to open carry but what the **** was he doing with a badge?People like this worry me and endanger everyones rights.
 

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A badge is only as good as the identification that backs it up. If you have a CFP, you can have a badge that says you have one. If you have a badge that says you are something you are not, then you get into trouble - a form of misidentification. Badges are not for LE and FBI only, many security personnel have badges, it's just identification, not some form of authority.
 

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smoke said:
It seems a student at one of our Universities decided to open carry ( he has (had)) a CFP. Also he was carrying on his belt a badge with a UT state seal and imprinted Law Enforcement which he is not.
I scanned the net and can't find the story that Smoke is referring to. Please post a link to the story when you start this type of thread.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
Please post a link to a story to back this up.

My personal belief is that wearing such a badge is a bad idea. It is poor PR for our cause to look like a cop-wannabe.
Agreed. Not a good idea.
 

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Carrying a badge is not necessarily a good or bad idea however, the perceptions one may receive, especially from police and the media, will carry everything out of proportion. Sometimes when an individual gets one of these badges they are trying to look like what they are not. Other times individuals may be trying to have some sort of quick identification, which as far as I know is not illegal in Utah, in case something may happen where-in they may need to identify themselves quickly when police do show up.
No, I do not use one, I don't advise we do. Mostly I advise against it because of the perceptions, both good and bad, which may result if one does use one of these.
Generally I would say, unless the state requires that cfp holders obtain and have these badges as a condition of getting their cfp, that you should not obtain or use one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'll get you more info as I can but this is how I got the story; last week I was sitting in on a CC class, the instructor told of being contacted by the University PD about CC Laws and open carry on campus. Up pops a hand of one of the CC class students, an attorney, who happens to be this accused attorney! He was legal to open carry, even on campus. Now a week later talking with the CC instructor I am told that the student was wearing a badge with the UT State seal on it and stamped LAW ENFORCEMENT. I also learned I know the arresting officer so without jeopardizing a person’s right to a fair trial I pass on what I can. This didn't happen at one of the liberal universities so until (if) it goes to court don't expect to see much.
 

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Hey I want one of those badges! If 90% of the time the displaying of a concealed weapon will stop the BG then think what a gun AND badge will do. Gun in my right hand and the badge in my left, cool! I'll have the BG running for sure. :lol: Maybe all I need is realistic looking water pistol (fake gun) and a concealed weapon badge (fake COP). It shows I mean business.

Do you guys remember Olden Polynice? It worked for him.
 

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knayrb said:
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"It's better to carry a gun ten years and never need to use it than to want it one minute and not have it." George A. Smith (1817-1875), Mormon Pioneer and Apostle
I can't find this quote. Could you tell me where he's cited saying this?

P.S. Badges are cool, even if you all "don't need no stinkin' badges!"
 

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IT HAPPENED SUDDENLY, LIKE MOST ENCOUNTERS OF THE WORST KIND

You're threatened with deadly force, but your gun is out and pointed at the felon. Your permit and CWP badge are in your pocket. The police pull up to the scene and the dirtbag shouts, "He's going to shoot me. KILL HIM!"

WHAT DO YOU DO?

You display your BADGE to the police and shout, "DON'T SHOOT. I'M A LEGALLY LICENSED HAND GUN OWNER."

The police officer orders you to put down your weapon. You comply. Situation under control. One criminal under arrest and YOU'RE ALIVE!

Courtesy of Maxsell.com, badge shown with Gun Metal finish.

See? How cool is that? :lol:
 

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Just to stipulate,
No, I don't have one of those badges, nor would I want one.

Stories involving those badges seem to make the rounds of other CC forums.
That's how I found the link.

phox
 

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GeneticsDave said:
knayrb said:
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"It's better to carry a gun ten years and never need to use it than to want it one minute and not have it." George A. Smith (1817-1875), Mormon Pioneer and Apostle
I can't find this quote. Could you tell me where he's cited saying this?
GeneticsDave, I first found this quote on the the Ol' Buffalo Gun Control Page (http://www.three-peaks.net/gun_control.htm search for "better to carry" on that page) and I really liked it. I wanted to find the real reference. I own a copy of the LDS Library 2006 software and found it in there. It was in the 1889 Periodical - The Contributor Volume 10. It was talking specifically of protection from Indians attacks on those pioneers that were settling Parowan, Utah at the time. Apostle George A. Smith led the first bad of settlers into Iron County. A brief excerpt from the whole paragraph says:

"Col. Smith understood this trait of Indian character and reiterated most positive orders that no man should leave the fort without arms. No man was permitted to go to the caon for wood, to hunt his cattle upon the range, nor go to his labor in the field without a gun or pistol for defense in case of need. He said it was better to carry a gun ten years and never need to use it than to want it one minute and not have it. In obedience to this wise counsel the settlers of Iron County for years always went armed, and in time of trouble even took their guns with them to their Sabbath meetings. Often has the writer attended public worship in Parowan when every man sat with his rifle between his knees; so that, should the savages make a sudden attack, they would find no arms to steal into the dwellings with which to shoot down their inhabitants. In time of danger, when men wanted firewood, for instance, a strong party went together, and while one half of the men loaded their wagons the rest stood guard around them. In returning to the fort, one man drove two teams, and the men thus released from driving served as front and rear guard for the party."

Notice that the Ol' Buffalo page has it as twenty years and the actual reference has it as ten. I went with what I thought was more accurate. I know from this short paragraph that it looks like some guy, Colonel Smith, was saying it but reading the whole chapter you understand that he was quoting George A. Smith's policies and instruction.

I hope that helps.
(1:36 AM - I got a lot on my mind and am an insomniac tonight)
 

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tapehoser said:
Got a link to an article or something?
Link??

As far as badges go... if your not in LE, forget about a badge. If you want a badge, go into LE.

A CFP does not make you a cop.

Don't pretend to be one.
 

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rhinokrk said:
As far as badges go... if your not in LE, forget about a badge. If you want a badge, go into LE.

A CFP does not make you a cop.

Don't pretend to be one.
Huh? People other than LE have badges. I think we all know, as it's evident, that being a CFP holder doesn't make you a LEO. But just because you have or want to have a badge, doesn't mean you are pretending to be a cop either. For instance, I am an EMT and I wear a badge on my uniform - does that make me a cop wannabe? What about the security guard who works at your local Walgreen's, he wears a badge from the company he works for, does that make him a cop wannabe? What about the fireman who lives down the street who wears his badge? I could go on all day.

I think we all need to realize that other people besides LE have badges. Badges do NOT mean you are a cop, they are ONLY a sign and representation of an office or status. Badges were originally created to provide quick, visual identification - just like chevrons on a uniform. The badge in and of itself does not constitute any AUTHORITY, just a title. The badge is only as good as the credentials that back it up.

I want you all to understand that I do not condone "impersonating an officer of the law." However, that would only be the case if someone were walking around with a badge that said "Police" or "Sheriff", or "Law Enforcement." ANY other badge just denotes exactly what it says. It is the public who needs to be educated and realize that badges do not belong to LE only, by reprimanding others or forbidding them to wear a badge, we, or society, just perpetuate ignorance.
 

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We all know the Security guard that works at walgreens wants to be a cop....

All joking aside badges tend to display authority and since people already see permit holders as cop wannabees the badge will tend not to help that image.
 

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xmirage2kx said:
...badges tend to display authority and since people already see permit holders as cop wannabees the badge will tend not to help that image.
Well, you have been given authority from the State to carry a weapon concealed (not that I think we NEED authority, but that is a whole other subject), so you, in effect, have a right to display that authority if you so choose (i.e. Badge).

I disagree with the second part however. Since when do WE kowtow to the public? If you think wearing a badge hurts an "image" with the general public or that it doesn't help promote questions and educate, how can you support open carry? Most people that see someone openly carrying a firearm will most likely assume that the person is an off-duty LEO. I'm not saying that a badge and open carry are the same thing, but you can see how both can lead to cases of mistaken identities.

I'm not promoting that everyone here go out and buy a CFP badge, only that you understand that the whole reason we think they are bad and "hurt our image" is because we assume that the population and LE that will see it are ignorant of it's true meaning and power. If we don't educate ourselves first, we are just as bad as the people who would seek to restrict and eliminate our rights, be it whether you can carry a badge or whether you can carry a gun.
 

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"Badges......We don't need no stinkin badges". Ok

Im involved in the security industry and I don't like badges.... Just for the fact that people will THINK the security officer is a cop and that can lead to other problems. The security I'm involved in now is GREAT.... I don't have to have a badge. Plus I make a lot more money and make more than the Police out there.... SHHHHHH don't tell Hunter about it....
 
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