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Do you carry Pepper spray, Tazer, etc?
If so what do you carry?
Where do you carry it (pocket, strong/weak side, etc)?
If so what do you carry?
Where do you carry it (pocket, strong/weak side, etc)?
Do you carry LTL (Less Then Lethal force)
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I don't. I do have my Leatherman on me a lot of the time, but that's it. I do keep pepper spray in my cars.
I'm a relatively big fella, so I kinda figure that if someone is going to mess with me in a way that I can't physically deal with it, then my gun will likely be out. Yes, that's probably not the best attitude.
I'm a relatively big fella, so I kinda figure that if someone is going to mess with me in a way that I can't physically deal with it, then my gun will likely be out. Yes, that's probably not the best attitude.
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I've been carrying OC and a folding lock-knife. Usually I carry the OC in my weak-side front pocket and the knife in my weak-side back pocket (it has a clip that I clip to the pocket).
I realize the possibility of being made with having those things on the same side as my watch, but since I rarely tuck my shirt in it is not readily apparent that I have those things.
The bad thing with carrying my OC in my front pocket is that I have OCD tendencies and whenever I have my hands in my pockets (which is all the time) I have a tendency to constantly be flicking the stupid lever back and forth... I know, pretty dumb...
I feel more comfortable knowing that I have LTL tools to handle a situation so that in a questionable situation I don't feel conflicted over presenting/not-presenting my pistol. Super Dell's case comes to mind... (though I realize some would disagree)... I would have been more comfortable canting myself to the 3, placing my hand on my weapon behind my back and pulling my OC as a deterrent (and simultaneously putting distance between us).
Without a LTL tool, you have no option but to present or not present and get stuck without anything at the ready.
I realize the possibility of being made with having those things on the same side as my watch, but since I rarely tuck my shirt in it is not readily apparent that I have those things.
The bad thing with carrying my OC in my front pocket is that I have OCD tendencies and whenever I have my hands in my pockets (which is all the time) I have a tendency to constantly be flicking the stupid lever back and forth... I know, pretty dumb...
I feel more comfortable knowing that I have LTL tools to handle a situation so that in a questionable situation I don't feel conflicted over presenting/not-presenting my pistol. Super Dell's case comes to mind... (though I realize some would disagree)... I would have been more comfortable canting myself to the 3, placing my hand on my weapon behind my back and pulling my OC as a deterrent (and simultaneously putting distance between us).
Without a LTL tool, you have no option but to present or not present and get stuck without anything at the ready.
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I carry OC all the time. The one I carry is the ASP KEy Defender. Its a small item that looks like a Kuboton. It has a safety built into it that you just flip with a thumb. Plus it can be used as an impact tool at closer ranges. Then I carry a CRKT M16-12M Knife also. The OC is on my weak side and the knife is on my strong side in my pocket with the clip. Good items.
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I carry a CRKT first strike with the tip in my back pocket or a folder in my back pocket. Some one wants my wallet I figure they are could to get something unexpected.
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I usually carry a small pocket knife with me, but it is for convenience and not defense....though I can have it out and unfolded in about a half second. It is one of those folding knifes you can unfold with one hand and it has about a 2" blade.
I have felt that if my mouth and brain can't get me out of any given situation, the gun is next. I'm not messing with some stupid can of spice or some small pokey object.
-PW
I have felt that if my mouth and brain can't get me out of any given situation, the gun is next. I'm not messing with some stupid can of spice or some small pokey object.
-PW
I'm with PW. My pocket knife is a tool, used for all kinds of tasks but not for defense. If it comes time to defend myself, I don't want to have to waste time thinking, "Do I draw OC, knife, or gun?" If I am threatened enough to need OC, I am threatened enough to need a gun.
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That approach works for a lot of people. I look at it as I might be traveling somewhere that I can't take my gun. So I go with a layered approach to my families safety. I Study American Kenpo twice a week every week, if that isnt enough I can add my knife, and if both are a stupid idea its time for my .45ACP to get the job done. Call me paranoid, it probably fits.
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And why would I?xmirage2kx said:
As I see it any one of the following could happen with say pepper spray or Tazer.
1. They don't work......this is bad. :shock:
2. You miss (they are harder to aim and wind and other factors come to play)........this is bad. :shock:
3. They make your attacker really mad........this is bad. :shock:
4. They get you instead (called cross contamination in pepper spray and it happens with a Tazer too)........This is bad. :shock:
5. They work as designed.........This is good.
If you fear for your life you run or shoot.
If you don't fear for your life you talk or you leave.
You are not cops you don't need to capture some one.
Tarzan
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Funny story about a friend's brother who was a cop for Davis County:
A very LARGE bad guy is pulled over and when vehicle stops, he gets out of the vehicle with a crowbar and proceeds toward the officers. They pull their guns and order him to drop the corwbar. He drops it. Now that he has dropped the crowbar, they feel a little safer and proceed to go through the whole cuffing thing.
Bad guy will have no part of it and decides to attack the smaller officer who has holstered his gun. Partner grabs the pepper spray while the other cop is getting the crud beat out of him and sprays the bad guy. Bad guy wipes the pepper spray off his face, looks at the other cop and says, "MMMMMM. You're next!"
Ultimately, the pepper spray had no effect on this bad guy. Whether he was on drugs, or was just immune to the stuff, I don't know, but it took a lot of serious force from 2 cops to subdue this guy. The cop that sprayed the pepper spray actually broke his hand from hitting the BG in the head repeatedly.
I like my .45. :shock:
A very LARGE bad guy is pulled over and when vehicle stops, he gets out of the vehicle with a crowbar and proceeds toward the officers. They pull their guns and order him to drop the corwbar. He drops it. Now that he has dropped the crowbar, they feel a little safer and proceed to go through the whole cuffing thing.
Bad guy will have no part of it and decides to attack the smaller officer who has holstered his gun. Partner grabs the pepper spray while the other cop is getting the crud beat out of him and sprays the bad guy. Bad guy wipes the pepper spray off his face, looks at the other cop and says, "MMMMMM. You're next!"
Ultimately, the pepper spray had no effect on this bad guy. Whether he was on drugs, or was just immune to the stuff, I don't know, but it took a lot of serious force from 2 cops to subdue this guy. The cop that sprayed the pepper spray actually broke his hand from hitting the BG in the head repeatedly.
I like my .45. :shock:
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I have deployed OC on "Real life" bad guys at least 12 times. It has worked on them all the time. I have seen it NOT work on one person and that was a fellow officer for his initial spray.
Just remember that NOTHING works 100% of the time. I know several people that have been shot and are still alive, one of them was shot in the head with a 7.62x39mm rounds with NO helmet. He is still alive.
There are times when you can and should leave the area, then there are other times where you can not leave and you may NOT be justified in going to your firearm. This is the reason I carry OC. Plus if I spray them and then have to go to gun, it will look a bit better in court that I "tried the use of force continum". Just my 2 pennies.
Just remember that NOTHING works 100% of the time. I know several people that have been shot and are still alive, one of them was shot in the head with a 7.62x39mm rounds with NO helmet. He is still alive.
There are times when you can and should leave the area, then there are other times where you can not leave and you may NOT be justified in going to your firearm. This is the reason I carry OC. Plus if I spray them and then have to go to gun, it will look a bit better in court that I "tried the use of force continum". Just my 2 pennies.
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Always a plus.Strategic Tactical said:
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ST: My thinking as well, and I have observed similar in relation to OC... out of something like 200 guys on my ship that were sprayed, only one wasn't seriously affected by it. Also, I can spray multiple targets easily with OC without hitting innocents... that's a lot harder to do with a gun.
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What I wish I could find is an OC spray (preferably a foaming spray as this is my favorite type due to limited blowback) that attaches to the rail of your gun with a button that will activate the spray. This way you draw 1 weapon but have 2 options without any real delay time.
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I have a few concerns about this. If you are in a position to draw your gun, you should also be in a position where you might have to use your gun. In other words, if you're not justified in shooting someone, you're rarely justified in pointing your gun at them.xmirage2kx said:
If your intention is to pepper spray a defender, by drawing your gun, you might find yourself facing assault charges or worse.
Maybe I'm off base on this, but it just sounds like a bad idea to me.
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I see your point, but there are cases where having a gun forces escalation.
One example could be a bar fight (or similar) where the BG starts a fight with you and you are unable to defuse it or leave. This really leaves you 2 options:
1. Engage the fistfight, hope you win. You however risk losing and thus giving the BG access to your gun, if there is ANY doubt you could lose then option 2 is really the only choice.
2. You pull your gun. The BG can A: stop attacking and leave. or B: keep attacking forcing you to shoot.
Now you legally (from my understanding) could shoot the BG as countless cases have proved a single blow can easily cause death or permanent injury (regardless of size, however for this case bigger is safer). I know that I would feel bad for shooting someone because they are a mean drunk (would still do it, but would feel much worse than shooting say the trolley square guy).
With a LTL choice you could still stop the fight without death.
Besides you OC someone without cause you face the same assault charges as pointing your gun.
One example could be a bar fight (or similar) where the BG starts a fight with you and you are unable to defuse it or leave. This really leaves you 2 options:
1. Engage the fistfight, hope you win. You however risk losing and thus giving the BG access to your gun, if there is ANY doubt you could lose then option 2 is really the only choice.
2. You pull your gun. The BG can A: stop attacking and leave. or B: keep attacking forcing you to shoot.
Now you legally (from my understanding) could shoot the BG as countless cases have proved a single blow can easily cause death or permanent injury (regardless of size, however for this case bigger is safer). I know that I would feel bad for shooting someone because they are a mean drunk (would still do it, but would feel much worse than shooting say the trolley square guy).
With a LTL choice you could still stop the fight without death.
Besides you OC someone without cause you face the same assault charges as pointing your gun.
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Is that true??? (I actually don't know and am trying to clarify)xmirage2kx said:
The reason for my "?" is that one involves a deadly weapon and the other does not... it seems to me that while both would be assault, the charges would not be identical... is that wrong???
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I carry OC. I do it becasue I feel I should have some other option to go with besides just going to gun or getting into a fist fight.Not only could it look better in court, but less than lethal tools were originally designed so the person using them would be less likely to get hurt than by going hands on.
I've been in my fair share of fights and the fight was done when one of these things happened, I wised up and went to my ASP, OC, or Taser or when a bunch of Boys in Blue came to help. During one of these times I nearly broke my hand hitting the guy in the face. Why risk putting yourself in more harm when you don't have to. Use something other than going hands on if you can. I have met about 8-10 people that I never in a million years would have guessed were Martial Arts Experts. I sure would have hated to have found this out after they had just finished kicking the crap out of me.
As has been stated before nothing works %100 of the time, but chose something that will put you at the least amount of risk possible. I'm not saying don't learn martial arts, I think you should. I have had to hit and kick myself out of a guys reach so I could pull out a Less than Lethal Tool and then the fight was over. Yes, you can fight through OC, or tear one of the barbs from the Taser out, and you actually have to be somewhat accurate with an ASP to get the most "bang for your buck" out of them.
OC not only causes pain, but it causes involuntary eye closure and it makes your body create A LOT of mucus. To me the best thing OC does is the involuntary eye closure. OC does have it draw backs, you can get a does of it yourself, using it in a closed room or in an area that uses a circulated air system could cause other people some problems. But, OC is cheaper than a Taser and it's smaller than an ASP and you don't have to get up close and personal to use it.
My $.02 worth.
I've been in my fair share of fights and the fight was done when one of these things happened, I wised up and went to my ASP, OC, or Taser or when a bunch of Boys in Blue came to help. During one of these times I nearly broke my hand hitting the guy in the face. Why risk putting yourself in more harm when you don't have to. Use something other than going hands on if you can. I have met about 8-10 people that I never in a million years would have guessed were Martial Arts Experts. I sure would have hated to have found this out after they had just finished kicking the crap out of me.
As has been stated before nothing works %100 of the time, but chose something that will put you at the least amount of risk possible. I'm not saying don't learn martial arts, I think you should. I have had to hit and kick myself out of a guys reach so I could pull out a Less than Lethal Tool and then the fight was over. Yes, you can fight through OC, or tear one of the barbs from the Taser out, and you actually have to be somewhat accurate with an ASP to get the most "bang for your buck" out of them.
OC not only causes pain, but it causes involuntary eye closure and it makes your body create A LOT of mucus. To me the best thing OC does is the involuntary eye closure. OC does have it draw backs, you can get a does of it yourself, using it in a closed room or in an area that uses a circulated air system could cause other people some problems. But, OC is cheaper than a Taser and it's smaller than an ASP and you don't have to get up close and personal to use it.
My $.02 worth.
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