[mqeqeshe]

It seems like I read somewhere that you are not required to have your permit on your person when packing here in Utah. Not that I would intentionally do so, but if someone forgot their permit for some reason...

Does anyone have a reference that would confirm or deny my thinking in this regard? Just wanted to clarify things for myself.

 

[xmirage2kx]

You MUST have your permit with you for CC.

 

[Shaolin]

Also, need to tell the LE that you have a permit either carrying or not.

 

[hamm]

You MUST have your permit with you for CC.

Where in the law does it say this?

 

[Jeff Johnson]

You MUST have your permit with you for CC.

Where in the law does it say this?

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been looking for where this might be found. I can't find it yet, but that doesn't mean that it's not there.

Even if it is not explicitly a legal requirement, for myself, I wouldn't want to be detained and found to be with my firearm, but without my permit on me. Seems it would lead to a lot of hassle.

I'll keep looking in the statutes...

 

[Ruger Collector]

There's no requirement to have the permit in your possession (in this state), it is a violation of common sense to not have it. But if you lose your wallet and not your firearm and then get pulled over for speeding (as long as you inform the officer promptly of your lawfully carried weapon) you should be ok. Knowing your DL & CFP numbers would be very helpful in this stiuation.

They WILL verify your CFP when they call in your 27 and 29 check.

If there are "technical problems" (computers or communications) and you don't have the permit on you, then you may have a problem... Most other states require you to have the permit on you when you have a concealed weapon, so it's also good if you travel to be in the habit of carrying both.

 

[mqeqeshe]

I thought it had been posted on the BCI website under the FAQs but I couldn't find it today. Nowhere could I find where it says you have to have it on your person:

(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:

I am a person to whom a permit has been issued, so those sections (concealed dangerous weapon, loaded firearm in vehicle) don't apply to me. You'd think if you had to have the permit with you to be exempt from those laws it would be worded accordingly. I'm not advocating carrying without your permit, but it would be nice to know for anyone that may forget or lose their wallet at some point.

 

[xmirage2kx]

I called BCI and was told that if you do not have your permit with you prepare to be treated as if you did not have a permit. Once your permit status is confirmed you should be just fine, but a trip to the PD station and having your gun taken until it is proved would be a possibility. I asked for an email stating this and will post it when I get it.

 

[Ruger Collector]

I scoured the Utah code and all of the online documents at http://www.bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFPHome.html yesterday and didn't see anything on the subject. [Sarcasm]Maybe they should pass another law so people will always do the right thing?[/Sarcasm]

But like I said earlier about common sense...

On a nostalgic note, I really miss this website:

 

[althor]

Also, need to tell the LE that you have a permit either carrying or not.

Not correct. You don't need to say or have anything if you're not carrying.

 

[tapehoser]

Not correct. You don't need to say or have anything if you're not carrying.

I don't feel like it's smart to do this.

In a pullover scenario, if you were the cop and had pulled me over...let's say I did NOT offer my CFP nor was I carrying. That officer is going to go back to his car and run my DL# and see that I am a CFP holder. Then he'll have thoughts running through his head like, "Why didn't this guy tell me that? Does he have something to hide?"

It just seems like a bad idea to NOT let him know either way, even if you AREN'T carrying.

 

[Shaolin]

Also, need to tell the LE that you have a permit either carrying or not.

Not correct. You don't need to say or have anything if you're not carrying.

Hey, do want you want, I was told at my CCW class from a Criminal Defense Lawyer/ex Police Officer to do this. Just trying to keep you out of trouble.

 

[divegeek]

It just seems like a bad idea to NOT let him know either way, even if you AREN'T carrying.

Agreed. FWIW, this was also the advice of my CFP instructor. He was a former LEO and said that the policeman will normally know before he approaches that you are a CFP holder and therefore that there's a higher probability that you will be armed. So the cop may be a little more cautious (I don't think that makes any sense, but...) and it's a good idea to reassure him as soon as possible, as forthrightly and non-threateningly as possible.

He suggested that you keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel, in plain sight, except to hand over your DL and CFP, with the CFP on top, and that you say "Officer, I'm a Utah State Concealed Firearm Permit holder, and I am (or am not) carrying a firearm today". Then keep your hands on the wheel except when asked to do something.

The best approach is to avoid being pulled over, of course. I don't know that anyone tracks statistics on moving violations for CFP holders, but it would be cool if it were much lower than the norm, in case anyone ever did look.

 

[UtahCFP]

In Texas, you had to hand over your concealed handgun permit to any government official who asked for ID. The lady at the DMV just handed it back to me when I handed her my driver license and CHP. I still keep driver license and permits together out of habit, and it helps with my "don't do anything to make an officer nervous" rule.

- Dave

 

[althor]

I for one am not convinced. As a matter of principle I don't volunteer any information during a traffic stop that is not required. I also wouldn't invite an officer to search my vehicle in the 'spirit of cooperation' to ensure that the highways are 'safe'.

This forum should be about disseminating accurate information for those researching concealed carry laws and issues in the state of Utah. Stating opinion as fact only serves to confuse the issues and can reinforce misuderstanding. This could ultimately lead to legal troubles down the road, although maybe not with this particular suggestion.

If you feel like its a good idea to share you cfp status when you're not carrying thats fine, but don't suggest that it is required by law... unless it is... and then cite.

I like suggestions, but I want to know the law even more.

 

[Udink]

Also, need to tell the LE that you have a permit either carrying or not.

Not correct. You don't need to say or have anything if you're not carrying.

Hey, do want you want, I was told at my CCW class from a Criminal Defense Lawyer/ex Police Officer to do this. Just trying to keep you out of trouble.

Althor is correct--if you're not carrying, there's no requirement to notify an officer according to Utah Administrative Rule R722-300-12:

When a concealed firearm permit holder or certificate of qualification holder is stopped for questioning by a peace officer based on reasonable suspicion in accordance with Section 77-7-15 and the holder has a concealed firearm in his/her possession, the holder shall immediately advise the peace officer that he/she is a lawful holder and has a concealed firearm in his/her possession.

That being said, I don't think the question is whether you should notify an officer if you're not carrying. The real question is, why aren't you carrying? :lol:

 

[T-Man]

In a pullover scenario, if you were the cop and had pulled me over...let's say I did NOT offer my CFP nor was I carrying. That officer is going to go back to his car and run my DL# and see that I am a CFP holder. Then he'll have thoughts running through his head like, "Why didn't this guy tell me that? Does he have something to hide?"

It just seems like a bad idea to NOT let him know either way, even if you AREN'T carrying.

This very scenario happened to my brother-in-law right after he got his permit. He hadn't bought his carry gun yet, got pulled over and the cop got all nervous because he didn't mention having a CFP. No, you are not REQUIRED to tell them you have a permit if not armed, but it doesn't hurt. The officer is going to find out about it anyway, and I think it would be best to clear the air right away. Don't forget that LEO's are on our side, so let's try to make their job easier.

The real question is, why aren't you carrying?

+1 :!:

 

[althor]

Don't forget that LEO's are on our side...

Hmm... I've never felt that way.

And as far as making their job easier I don't think that's in my best interest. As a citizen, I want to retain all my rights with as little power as possible given to law enforcement after they prove they need it. As a government organization, I'm sure they would like to deprive me of my rights and usurp as much power as they can get away with, to make their job easier of course... I guess we'll meet somewhere in between.

Its the government afterall. If we give them an inch... we'll end up getting (or losing) what we deserve. This may be a little thing, but they add up.

 

[T-Man]

As a government organization, I'm sure they would like to deprive me of my rights and usurp as much power as they can get away with, to make their job easier of course... I guess we'll meet somewhere in between.

You can bash the government organization if you like. Say things like "The Man is trying to keep me down." I won't take it pesonally. But when I said "LEO's are on our side," I meant individual officers. They are citizens, just like us, who are on the side of law and order, just like us.

I guess what I'm saying is don't blame individual, underpaid government employees for the disappearance of your individual rights.

 

[xmirage2kx]

I took a few days off, but here is the letter I received from BCI (real helpful :roll: )

You should always have your permit with you when carrying a firearm. Thank you,