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Guns in Schools

4296 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  apollosmith
Does that little bolded piece mean that CFP holders may carry a concealed firearm into a school?

Just wanna make sure....

76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
(g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
(i) unloaded; and
(ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.
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Again the standard disclaimer (I'm not a lawyer...), but as I understand it you can carry with a permit in a school. That was the premise behind getting teachers with permits to defend students during a school shooting.
I know we can....I just want to make sure where it is specified in the law itself.
Actually, no. That's not the section that authorizes those of us with CFPs to carry in schools. It's the following section that does:
76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
(2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;

(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
(emphasis added to highlight the pertinent section)
On another forum we have a little argument going about this stuff. After I proved them wrong with the law, they are now coming to me with this garbage. Tell me if either post has any validity.

1st Post:
"Teachers with a permit may carry in schools. Some districts mandate that the principal have knowledge of who carries."

2nd Post:
"I wasn't saying that the district made a gun free zone, you are correct they can't, what I was saying that in their policy they can mandate that you as an employee can not carry a firearm while on duty. I have a friend that works for Iron County School District and he said that it was in his empolyment policy that he can not carry a fire arm at work."

I don't believe either of these statement hold water. I don't think a district CAN prohibit a CFP holder who happens to be a teacher from carrying at work. Been all over the law on this one and cannot find a definitive answer.

Anybody know for sure???
School disticts, as well as the University of Utah, are subject to Legislative pre-emption. The Legislature has reserved enactment gun laws unto itself. School districts have no legal authority to regulate concealed carry. So sayeth the Legislature!
Car Knocker said:
School districts have no legal authority to regulate concealed carry.
School districts do have the authority to regulate employment as they see fit, just like my company can terminate my employment if I were to carry at work. It's happened before (see the AOL thread) at private companies, and the school districts of Utah are really no different as far as employment practices. School districts cannot legally stop me from carrying on school grounds, but they can certainly fire employees for doing the same in violation of district policy.
63-98-102. Uniform firearm laws. (Dated 2004)
(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right under Article I, Section 6 of the Utah Constitution, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform civil and criminal firearm laws throughout the state.
(2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:
(a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control; or
(b) require an individual to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
(3) In conjunction with Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons, this section is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities.
(4) All authority to regulate firearms is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities.
(5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
(6) As used in this section:
(a) "firearm" has the same meaning as defined in Subsection 76-10-501(9) ; and
(b) "local authority or state entity" includes public school districts, public schools, and state institutions of higher education.
(7) Nothing in this section restricts or expands private property rights.

School districts are NOT private companies. They are owned, operated, and funded by the state and are considered an 'entity' of the state.
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tapehoser said:
School districts are NOT private companies. They are owned, operated, and funded by the state and are considered an 'entity' of the state.
Ok, point taken. :oops: I knew that they couldn't prohibit the general public from carrying, but for some reason I thought they could enforce a ban on employees carrying. My bad. :lol:
It's good to have the law on your side, but it's not the end of the story.

Regardless of whether they're authorized, that doesn't prevent them from doing it still and let you the individual burn your time and money in court after you're fired.

The UofU is a prime example.

The Utah courts also gave the legistlature and governor the bird, remember.

So, if some district tries to use contract law to get around clear state pre-emption, I wouldn't be surprised.
Duly noted. But if any district is trying to make teachers conform to such contracts and agreements, it behooves them to make contact with the AG's office and make them aware of it.
tapehoser said:
…it behooves them to make contact with the AG's office and make them aware of it.
"Most" school districts have an unwritten "don't ask, don't tell" policy pertaining to carrying concealed at school if you're licensed. We had a gang unit commander come to our school and explained the facts of life to us and explained that school districts could not legally stop you from carrying while at school. He further went on to explain that he would not want anyone to bring a gun to school if they felt uncomfortable about doing so and did not have the necessary training to properly use it in a safe manner...his last statement was that if any teacher did decide to do so, NO ONE should ever know about it, not even the RSO. This is a subject that most teachers don't even want to discuss at school or elsewhere, in other words don't rock the boat.
dgtanner said:
As for the University of Utah... As of current, it is legal to conceal carry, correct? Does anybody know if the University impose any further punishments such as expulsion?
Any action against student, faculty, or staff at a state institution for legally carrying could be considered an infringement of your rights and discrimination. It would certainly be grounds for a lawsuit. The U cannot expel you for legally carrying. They have issued a memo that asks nicely that people not carry and also informs those on campus to immediately call 911 and take shelter or flee if they see ANY gun. They issued a similar thing in a safety manual at USU.

Regarding desertrat's comment on Don't Ask, Don't Tell. At my local high school, the resource officer told staff that if they carry and want to, that they should inform him so he knows who to come to if something terrible happens. He is very welcoming to concealed carry and while he doesn't outright encourage it, he knows he can't single handedly protect the 1000+ students from every possible situation.
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