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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HB195 is called "CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT AMENDMENTS"

http://le.utah.gov/~2008/bills/hbillint/hb0195.htm

What this should be really called is "Issuing permits to Nonresident Aliens / Illegals."

I really don't know what to think about this law and would love some input from others.

On one hand I think we can argue that the right to carry a firearm is a God given right and shouldn't be restricted in any way so let anyone that wants to get a permit get one. If we let illegals have them shouldn't we also allow felons to get a permit.

On the other hand, I personally have a problem with illegals having any rights.

What do you guys think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
T-Man said:
Illegal immigrants are criminals, hence the term "illegal." Criminals don't have rights. They have rights in their own country, and they are welcome to go back there and exercize what rights that government is willing to let them keep. Or they can enter the US LEGALLY, apply for citizenship, and enjoy being an AMERICAN!!

OT--What we need to do is make life miserable for illegals. Make them wish they were back home, and then maybe they will stop invading the US. And punish SEVERELY anyone caught giving illegals a job.
I agree. But what do you say about the feeling many have that the Bill of Rights are God given rights that everyone should have?

My attitude is that they have those rights in their own countries or in the countries that they are legal citizens of.

So T-Man, I know you live in MT, but I'd love to see the text of an email you would send if you lived in Utah.
 

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I think this is a tough issue. I like what bane said:
"Which is why, IMHO, the accurate view on this issue of illegal's obtaining a CC permit is that the 2A Rights are INHERENT Rights, thus illegals should have the right to self-defense until they demonstrate that they cannot be trusted to be safe with a firearm. *BUT* our government should NOT subsidize their application for the permit -- thus, the cost should be significantly more than is charged to a Citizen -- in fact, the cost should at least be equal to the cost determined to administer the program for that one person.
In this way we respect their INHERENT rights without supporting their choice to not participate in our system of gov't."

Lets charge them $5000 a pop.

I also really liked swilden's point:
"Now the caveat: If we assume that the way we handle concealed weapons carry for citizens is correct, then I don't think we can issue CFPs to aliens, whether legal or not. Our legislators apparently believe that only individuals who have demonstrated a certain level of trustworthiness should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon, and that trustworthiness is evaluated by a review of the applicant's history."

I don't know that we would all agree that permits are handled correctly and I don't know that I want to get in that discussion but for sake of arguement lets say that we accept the permit process as is and are all OK with it. I would then say that the illegals would not qualify for a permit because though they may not have been convicted of any felonies or crimes of moral turpitude, the simple act of them being in the USA is a disqualifying crime to begin with IMO. They have already demonstarted through their illegal actions that they are not trustworthy. (That seems harsh, but hey...)

I am against (I think) but only because the whole illegal situation pisses me off to begin with and I think allowing them to get permits only moves us in the opposite direction of where I would like to see the illegal problem go. Yes they do have an inherent right to self defense, but I say when you are here illegally you don't get that right. Go home and excercise you God given rights legally.

So what say yea? For or Against?
 
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