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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My name is Kevrin and I'm a counselor in Roosevelt, UT. I've been learning about CCW for several years and have written to my state legislators and senators several times on such issues. I finally took the plunge, received some training which will be ongoing, and three days ago received my Utah CCW permit (BCI only took one month for processing). I have an M&P9 which has been outstanding.

I just found out about this forum. Thank you for welcoming me.
 

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Weclome, Kevin. Enjoy your stay. This is, by far, the most authoritative site for Utah CFP holders with some VERY experienced members and some folks who know the law backward and forward.

See you on the boards!
 

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tapehoser said:
Weclome, Kevin. Enjoy your stay. This is, by far, the most authoritative site for Utah CFP holders with some VERY experienced members and some folks who know the law backward and forward.

See you on the boards!
You forgot insideout and upside down too.... :D

Welcome, Dont forget to check out our UCC events page for our next get together.
 

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Welcome Kevin. You're a valuable member of our community, please make yourself at home.

 

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kev4 said:
My name is Kevrin and I'm a counselor in Roosevelt, UT. I've been learning about CCW for several years and have written to my state legislators and senators several times on such issues. I finally took the plunge, received some training which will be ongoing, and three days ago received my Utah CCW permit (BCI only took one month for processing). I have an M&P9 which has been outstanding.

I just found out about this forum. Thank you for welcoming me.
Welcone.

I get to take a couple of work trips out to your area this next summer. Love to do some shooting when I am there.

Tarzan
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks to everyone who has welcomed me. I'm not a native out here in the Uintah Basin but if anybody comes out and would like to go shoot I'd be happy to meet up with you if I can. I moved here from Nebraska and I've been to that mall in Omaha. Great people in Nebraska. Horrible state laws regarding concealed carry and self protection.

Here's a little something that I just found out about concealed carry in Utah. I work in a counseling center and was cofused about how the law is written regarding concealed carry in a mental health facility. I contacted Utah BCI who said that concealed carry was only unlawful in "secured" mental health facilities where you would need to go through security with locked doors and such. I was told that other mental health facilities are not prohibitive of concealed carry. I thought that was great meaning I could carry at work until I found another Utah code which states that community mental health centers (such as where I work) are considered by the State to be "secured" facilities. As such, concealed carry is unlawful regardless of having a permit. Well, that was a disappointment. Overall, I'm not so worried about the mentally ill as I am about the criminals and drug users who are ordered to come for evaluations and treatment. I've met a few that worried me. Can you believe that one guy who I saw who had been in jail much of his life actually recommended that I get my concealed carry permit?

Well, Thanks everyone.
I'm glad to be here.
 
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Overall, I'm not so worried about the mentally ill as I am about the criminals and drug users who are ordered to come for evaluations and treatment. I've met a few that worried me. Can you believe that one guy who I saw who had been in jail much of his life actually recommended that I get my concealed carry permit?
They don't have people like that in Roosevelt. The must be imports from Nebraska! Wait.. there is no duck emoticon... I'm up a creek!
 

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I found another Utah code which states that community mental health centers (such as where I work) are considered by the State to be "secured" facilities
Do you recall which code section it was?
 

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Welcome to the group Kev4. I think thats pretty cool that a guy that has been in and out of jail suggested that you get your permit. If you have any questions just ask. Like what has been said.... lots of great info here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This is the communication I had with Phillip Leiker at BCI regarding concealed carry in mental health facilities. I referenced the Utah code indicating that community mental health facilities are "secured" and therefore concealed carry is unlawful. My facility is the local mental health authority in the area and being a Medicaid provider has State contracts.

I've numbered the emails from beginning to end.

#1
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Leiker [mailto:p[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:25 PM
To: Kevrin Johnson
Subject: Kevrin,

Kevrin,

only those mental locations that are secure, locked doors prevent entry
and are checked through a person or metal detecting devise.

Phil Leiker
Firearms Investigator
BCI
801-965-4485

#2
>>> "Kevrin Johnson" <kevrinj> 12/13/2007 1:47 PM >>>

Dear Phil Leiker,

I asked a question recently about whether it is lawful to carry
concealed with a permit in mental health facilities.

I was asking specifically about what is written on the BCI website
http://www.bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFLCarry.html which states (I have bolded
the statement to identify it.):

It is unlawful for a person with a firearm permit to carry a concealed
firearm in the following locations:

...
Any courthouse, churches if posted, mental health facility or
correctional facility that may provide by rule that no firearm may be
transported, sold, given, or possessed upon the facility. At least one
notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to a secure area
in which a dangerous weapon, firearm, or explosive is restricted.

Your response below was that "only those mental locations that are
secure, locked doors prevent entry and are checked through a person or
metal detecting devise."

I work in a mental health facility and was curious about the statement
posted in a side hallway (not prominently displayed at any entrance)
referencing Utah Admin Code R523-1-19 which I found on this website
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code ... 01.htm#T17. (I have
bolded the sentence to identify it.)

R523-1-19. Prohibited Items and Devices on the Grounds of Public Mental
Health Facilities.
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code ... 23-001.htm

(1) Pursuant to the requirements of Subsection 62A-12-202 (9), and
Sections 76-10-523.5, 76-8-311.1, and 76-8-311.3, all facilities owned
or operated by community mental health centers that have any contracts
with local mental health authority and/or the Utah State Division of
Substance Abuse and Mental Health are designated as secure areas.
Accordingly all weapons,
contraband, controlled substances, implements of escape,
ammunition, explosives, spirituous or fermented liquors,
firearms, or any other devices that are normally considered to be
weapons are prohibited from entry into community mental health centers
.
There shall be a prominent visual notice of secure area designation.
Law enforcement personnel are authorized to carry firearms while completing
official duties on the grounds of those facilities.

It appears then that my facility, being a community mental health
center, is considered "secured" and that the CCW permit does not allow
me to carry in this facility.

I just wanted to verify that this is or is not the case, that CCW
permits does not allow concealed carry in community mental health
centers because they are designated secure areas.

Thank you for your response to my question.

Sincerely,

Kevrin Johnson

#3

-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip LEIKER [mailto:p[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:56 PM
To: Kevrin Johnson
Subject: Re: CCW and mental health facilities

Kervrin,

if your facility is designated as a secure location and prohibits any
unauthorized items, then by law that would be a secured mental health
facility and a CCW permit would not protect you in carrying a firearm
there. If the location is defined as a secured facility by law, then it
would not have to posted as say private property, just like a police
station is a secure location and it is not posted. I hope that answers
your question.

Phil Leiker
Firearms Investigator
BCI
801-965-4485
 

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kev4 said:
If the location is defined as a secured facility by law, then it would not have to posted as say private property, just like a police
station is a secure location and it is not posted
. I hope that answers
your question.
A police station is a secure location? I have carried into my local police station every time I have been there (although this is only a handful of times), Open carried there too. I never had a problem and no one ever said anything about me carrying besides maybe asking what type of gun I had.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My understanding from this was that you could carry in a police station but not into the secured areas where you would have to pass through locked doors and such. When I go to the county jail to do mental health evaluations, I have to pass through three secured doors to enter. After passing through the first one there are lock boxes to secure firearms. I think that the other general areas would be fine except for the courthouse which is in another separate entry of the building.

I'm still dumbfounded to think that where I work is a "secured" area. I may see a lot of crazy people, but THIS is CRAZY.
 

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I was in the Cache County Sheriffs Office today, and carried. I didn't pass through any secure doors though. Simply spoke to the receptionist through the bullet proof glass. Did my business and went my way. The Sheriffs complex is in the same building as the county jail also. I figured since I wasn't passing through any locked or secure doors that I probably didn't need to worry about it.

-PW
 

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that makes more sense to me.
 
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