[Jeff Johnson]

With all the diccussion on OC, I still have a question and maybe a concern. Why? What is the point of OC if you have a CC permit? It seems to me that OC will bring on more criticism and give the gun control crowd more leverage, or at least more to talk about. It also seems that if the gun is conceled you are much less likely to have some bad guy snatch your gun, etc

Ah, the enduring debate. There are arguments for both sides, and we've had those arguments back and forth on this forum and many others I've frequented. Do a search on open carry here to find other threads where this has been hashed out.

 

[NotSoSimple]

Why? What is the point of OC if you have a CC permit?

Believe me if I could CC today, I would.

WHY? Because I dont have my permit YET.

 

[Guest]

Well I fulfilled the tradition of going to Wal Mart. The greeter didnt even notice, neither did the lady who I helped get something off the shelf. Did some browsing, looked at a bunch of stuff I knew I didnt want and left without incident.

Headed to Albertsons and scoped out the place for a sign; no sign so we are good to go. Again no problems. No one even noticed! I was sure to pick a lane that was busy, still nothing. I was kind of shocked, but nice really.

I did find myself not knowing what to do with my right hand. I did not want to cover my firearm, but any way else I carried it made it uncomfortable.

Now get a polished chrome desert eagle and custom leather chest holster or maybe an STI match master or S&W X frame..... those might get you noticed

 

[GeneticsDave]

Do we have a list of places that are known to not carry at? Only place I have noticed is Federal Buildings and South Towne Mall.

There have been many random posts. There is a Boycott List on the forum and some places where you can conceal but not open carry. Off the top of my head I know that people have had issues OC'ing at University Mall in Orem.

 

[sedjester]

With all the diccussion on OC, I still have a question and maybe a concern. Why? What is the point of OC if you have a CC permit? It seems to me that OC will bring on more criticism and give the gun control crowd more leverage, or at least more to talk about. It also seems that if the gun is conceled you are much less likely to have some bad guy snatch your gun, etc

About the only time I CC is when I have a jacket on. I wear my shirt tucked in which doesn't leave many options, let alone comfortable ones for concealed carry IMO. The CC permit also allows me to carry it fully loaded out in the open.

I believe the gun control crowd will lose leverage as more people are seen carrying guns peaceably.

There are times when I would be more apt to CC than to OC, but for me OC is the first choice.

I was a bit nervous about carrying out in the open the first few times I did. But now it's just another part of the daily routines.

 

[yung1s#2]

I have tried open carry and don't like it (although it has its place). I dont want to be noticed and if you OC you definately attract attention to yourself. Further, people who never knew you were a carrier will always suspect you and forever treat you different if they are hoplophobic. People get weird and treat you like Cain (a murderer). On the other hand the few times I have inadvertently broken cover, or carried OC, have sometimes been an opportunity to talk to someone about guns. Some would say if you OC you should also wear a T-shirt with a bullseye on it and the words "Shoot me first". The element of stealth and surprise is lost. Well there. I did it. Now the OC posse is going to flame me. Here is the olive branch. OC has its place and functions, I just prefer not to.

Almost my exact same thoughts!

 

[UTOC-45-44]

I have tried open carry and don't like it (although it has its place). I dont want to be noticed and if you OC you definately attract attention to yourself. Further, people who never knew you were a carrier will always suspect you and forever treat you different if they are hoplophobic. People get weird and treat you like Cain (a murderer). On the other hand the few times I have inadvertently broken cover, or carried OC, have sometimes been an opportunity to talk to someone about guns. Some would say if you OC you should also wear a T-shirt with a bullseye on it and the words "Shoot me first". The element of stealth and surprise is lost. Well there. I did it. Now the OC posse is going to flame me. Here is the olive branch. OC has its place and functions, I just prefer not to.

Almost my exact same thoughts!

:flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower:

:lolbang: :ROFL: :lol3:

TJ

 

[CR500AF]

I have tried to OC a few times but it makes me nervous. I have CC for 8 years now on a daily basis, and since finding this site I have tried to OC on several occasions and **** it feels odd. CC for me gives me a peace of mind that is hard to explain, but when I have OC I feel like everyone is noticing or weirded out by me. I love to OC when I am camping! I read on a post above that someones friend does and is always dressed nice, and is probably thought of as some sort of a detective or something. I guess when I lose a 100 lbs. or so I can dress like that and probably open carry and be more comfortable with it. To me it just seems like old school battle, it was stupid when the British wore red and marched on the battle field, then they got wasted by guerilla warriors. Sort of like the move "The Patriot" Mel Gibson kicks some major arse by being concealed and taking on more of the bad guys that way. I don't know, maybe I am wrong, my wife says I am wrong quite often. But I am going to stick with CC for now.

 

[GeneticsDave]

I think you should stick with whatever is comfortable for you. Ultimately the decision comes down to personal choice, I doubt that either method is truly better than the other.

I posted over on OpenCarry.org and thought my post might be relevant here:

I am always learning and exploring different options with regards to weapons carry. I am interested in OC, however am concerned by the fact that I am "showing my cards" so to speak.

Although I am sure this is rare, I don't want to invite confrontation just because an antagonizer notices my weapon and decides to be a jerk about it. In some aspects, concealing the weapon would lower the odds of this happening, simply because no one knows that I am packing.

I would like to know:

1. What your thoughts are regarding my concerns, do you have any tips/suggestions?
2. If you have been antagonized by someone because they saw your weapon and if so, how did you handle it?
3. Have you had someone try and reach/take your visible weapon?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

You have some legitimate concerns. I will do my best to answer them.

1. Open versus Concealed carry is debated constantly amongst those who carry a firearm for protection. Really there is no cut and dry answer. Proponents of concealed carry argue that concealed gives you a tactical advantage because the bad guy doesn't know you are armed. Open carriers say that by displaying the weapon, bad guys are deterred from committing violent or criminal acts in their presence. CC people then argue that the OC'er will be the first to get shot/attacked by the bad guy. OC'ers say that carrying openly shows the public that good guys (other than law enforcement and military) carry weapons too and that by stimulating discussion they not only educate the public but normalize firearms in the community and thus further the gun owner's cause. Really the choice is yours and depends on what YOU think is most likely to happen and what you feel comfortable with.

2. No one has antagonized me about openly carrying. I have had a couple people ask if it was legal - because they thought it wasn't. This is where education and being an upstanding citizen has its advantages. I have had the opportunity to educate and share my feelings about carrying to many people, hopefully giving them the courage and fortitude to decide that they will not be victims either. This is very rewarding.

3. No! Never have I had someone try to disarm me. I don't put it past anyone though, so I recommend using a holster with a secure retention system if you decide to carry openly. Don't rely on the tension mechanisms that are common in concealed carry holsters. BlackHawk makes SERPA level 2 and 3 retention holsters that are excellent. Trying to disarm someone is a good way to find yourself with a muzzel pointed at you or worse yet, getting shot. Don't let someone disarm you, take appropriate measures - get a good retention holster and stay in condition yellow - that should help prevent the incident in the first place.

 

[whiptrackercracker]

Yep, you've just gotta do whats comfortable for you. I OC once in a while, but not usually. I'm a gimp and people can tell from my walk. This makes the "dressing and looking like a professional" useless in the eyes of people around me. I don't get the "are you a cop" question often. Unfortunately people stereotype a person with a walking disability as someone who is mentally incompetant. It really freaks people and LEO out to see me OC. Its almost always a hastle and so I don't do it often right now. I'll do it more when I am more financially and professionally stable. In that manner I'll have the time and effort to spend on idiots. If the gun happens to peak from under the coat, however, I don't care. Now when I'm with fellow OCers or up in the mountains, I always have the gun out and open. I think its important to make others understand slowly that its ok. It can feel akward or natural depending on the place and environment. Either way, just do what works and be ready to defend your right!!!

 

[bane]

I think its important to make others understand slowly that its ok.

:agree:

 

[CR500AF]

I have posted on this topic before. 2 days ago I was at a 7-11 by my house in Holladay and there were two S.L. County Sheriff officers in there by the magazine rack reading magazines or pretending to read them. They were mainly just b.s.ing. I walked over to them and asked them, "hey, how do you guys feel about open carrying?" and one of them responded, "I don't think they have passed that law yet." and then I replied, "I thought it was perfectly legal for one to open carry as long as there were two actions before a cartridge could be fired?" and the other younger cop sort of looked at me in an pissed look and said, "well you can probably do it if you want to terroize people, and have them end up calling us to come out and see what is going on with you!" and then I said, "What about cc permit holders?" and the older officer repplied, "I believe that they are different and that they can, but I don't like it or suggest doing that." I then repplied, "thanks, nice talking to you guys." Then I left the store. I am not sure what to think, it seems to me like you almost should pack a copy of the laws pertaining to O.C. when you O.C., because these two officers seemed to be un-aware of what the current law actually states, and the younger guy acted like he would see it as an aggression and want to tazer me or something! :shock:

Just thought I would share that experience with you all, as I wouldn't of even thought of asking those two officers those questions if it weren't for this site.

 

[Paul]

This is one of the reasons why I don't OC. I have nothing against OC, I just don't want to get bothered and have my time wasted by ignorant people. I really appreciate those that have the time to deal with the consequences of OC, and I may do it some day when I have nothing better to do and won't be bothered by spending an hour with the cops. I am just too busy to deal with the wasted time if someone calls the cops and the cops are ignorant. Yes it is a great education opportunity, I guess I just don't want to be the one doing the educating.....

 

[mchlwise]

I posted over on OpenCarry.org and thought my post might be relevant here:

Great post.

I think the "shoot me first" and gun-grab arguments hold some weight. If I'm going to be open carrying I'm DEFINITELY going to be even more aware of my surroundings than I would normally be. I'll look a little harder at someone who looks like they might be up to something, and I'll keep my distance from everyone so they can't try to disarm me without being real obvious about it.

I walked over to them and asked them, "hey, how do you guys feel about open carrying?" and one of them responded, "I don't think they have passed that law yet." and then I replied, "I thought it was perfectly legal for one to open carry as long as there were two actions before a cartridge could be fired?"

Unfortunately, there are cops out there who look at the law backwards. Laws do not tell us what to do. There are very few if any laws that say "A citizen shall blah blah blah..." Laws are almost always written in the negative: "A citizen shall NOT blah blah blah..."

The one guy was right, technically, that they haven't passed a law saying a citizen can open carry. What they've done is passed laws saying a citizen shall not carry a loaded gun, and that a citizen shall not carry concealed without a permit to do so. Since it's not illegal to carry as long as it's not concealed and not loaded, open carrying is legal. Open carrying isn't about doing what the legislature has told us to do, it's about exercising our Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights to be able to bear arms... as long as we comply with the state restrictions that they be unloaded and unconcealed.

(btw: "unloaded" is defined as two actions required to fire, as you stated)

I carry a copy of Utah Code sections 76-10-502, 76-10-504, and 76-10-505 with me (which are the above-referenced laws) just in case.

This is one of the reasons why I don't OC. I have nothing against OC, I just don't want to get bothered and have my time wasted by ignorant people. I really appreciate those that have the time to deal with the consequences of OC, and I may do it some day when I have nothing better to do and won't be bothered by spending an hour with the cops. I am just too busy to deal with the wasted time if someone calls the cops and the cops are ignorant. Yes it is a great education opportunity, I guess I just don't want to be the one doing the educating.....

I'm with you. Most of the time, I won't have the time or inclination to educate anyone who may ask me about it. There might be times, though, when I'll be in the right mood and will be o.k. educating someone if they ask.

I'm thinking about OC'ing tonight... since my permit hasn't come yet! :nilly: :disgusted:

 

[GeneticsDave]

This is one of the reasons why I don't OC. I have nothing against OC, I just don't want to get bothered and have my time wasted by ignorant people. I really appreciate those that have the time to deal with the consequences of OC, and I may do it some day when I have nothing better to do and won't be bothered by spending an hour with the cops. I am just too busy to deal with the wasted time if someone calls the cops and the cops are ignorant. Yes it is a great education opportunity, I guess I just don't want to be the one doing the educating.....

To each their own. I have found a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment whilst educating. I have also had a lot of people thank me for it as well. For many, this is a hazy subject, something they don't know much of and are therefore anxious about. Being able to explain things and wipe away the haze has been very rewarding.

 

[whiptrackercracker]

+1 its the same reason I do it once in a while. I've had others with walking disabilities have their haze whipped away when they saw me carrying. Many automatically think that not being to walk somehow bans them from being trusted with a gun, in societies eyes. Even though a great deal probably shoot better than I do. Although not always true, for the most part I don't see too many people freak out at the notion. At least not anymore than the normal he's got a gun response. :ROFL:

 

[Paul]

This is one of the reasons why I don't OC. I have nothing against OC, I just don't want to get bothered and have my time wasted by ignorant people. I really appreciate those that have the time to deal with the consequences of OC, and I may do it some day when I have nothing better to do and won't be bothered by spending an hour with the cops. I am just too busy to deal with the wasted time if someone calls the cops and the cops are ignorant. Yes it is a great education opportunity, I guess I just don't want to be the one doing the educating.....

To each their own. I have found a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment whilst educating. I have also had a lot of people thank me for it as well. For many, this is a hazy subject, something they don't know much of and are therefore anxious about. Being able to explain things and wipe away the haze has been very rewarding.

I would have no problem educating the public. I simply don't want to be the one educating Law Enforcement.

 

[UTOC-45-44]

This is one of the reasons why I don't OC. I have nothing against OC, I just don't want to get bothered and have my time wasted by ignorant people. I really appreciate those that have the time to deal with the consequences of OC, and I may do it some day when I have nothing better to do and won't be bothered by spending an hour with the cops. I am just too busy to deal with the wasted time if someone calls the cops and the cops are ignorant. Yes it is a great education opportunity, I guess I just don't want to be the one doing the educating.....

To each their own. I have found a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment whilst educating. I have also had a lot of people thank me for it as well. For many, this is a hazy subject, something they don't know much of and are therefore anxious about. Being able to explain things and wipe away the haze has been very rewarding.

I would have no problem educating the public. I simply don't want to be the one educating Law Enforcement.

PW, I enjoy helping the public to understand the legality of OCing and they thank me for it and are also a little bit surprised that this is not widely know.

When it comes to LEO's...,well that's a TOTALLY separate issue.

Due to some very...interesting encounters in West Valley City the local P.D now knows that OCing IS legal. The last encounter at Albertsons on 35th S & 36th W was a very pleasant and relaxed one. I VERY much applaud the LEO's that came and talked to me. They were VERY courteous.

If it takes 1 city at a time to help LEO's to understand the legality of it (OCing) that's the way it MAY have to happen.

TJ

 

[Paul]

PW, I enjoy helping the public to understand the legality of OCing and they thank me for it and are also a little bit surprised that this is not widely know.

When it comes to LEO's...,well that's a TOTALLY separate issue.

Due to some very...interesting encounters in West Valley City the local P.D now knows that OCing IS legal. The last encounter at Albertsons on 35th S & 36th W was a very pleasant and relaxed one. I VERY much applaud the LEO's that came and talked to me. They were VERY courteous.

If it takes 1 city at a time to help LEO's to understand the legality of it (OCing) that's the way it MAY have to happen.

TJ

I always read your posts and remember the one about your Albertsons experience. I am a fan of yours. You are one of the guys I was referring to when I said I appreciated those who did the educating. Thanks and keep up the good work! Maybe you can move to Logan and start educating LEO up here. LOL.

 

[mchlwise]

PW, I enjoy helping the public to understand the legality of OCing and they thank me for it and are also a little bit surprised that this is not widely know.

When it comes to LEO's...,well that's a TOTALLY separate issue.

Due to some very...interesting encounters in West Valley City the local P.D now knows that OCing IS legal. The last encounter at Albertsons on 35th S & 36th W was a very pleasant and relaxed one. I VERY much applaud the LEO's that came and talked to me. They were VERY courteous.

If it takes 1 city at a time to help LEO's to understand the legality of it (OCing) that's the way it MAY have to happen.

TJ

Posts like these help me to "get in the mood" to OC every once in a while. Most of the time I don't have the time to be hasseled, but on a Friday night out with the wife or something, I'm a little more relaxed and willing to get into it. That's the only time I've OC'ed at this point, and didn't have any problems. I did see a couple keeping their eyes on me, but nobody said anything, and other than that no one seemed to notice.

Every once in a while I might try it, trolling for the opportunity to educate. Most of the time though I'll carry concealed... when my permit finally comes. :nilly: