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Just more proof that no-knock warrants are a bad idea

9233 Views 66 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  Aether
ksl.com said:
Robbers break into Salt Lake City home and terrorize family

Click picture for video:

A man was beaten during a robbery. It happened around 4 a.m. The victim's wife said she didn't know who the robbers were.

She didn't want to go on camera, but she shared with Eyewitness News the scary details. She said her 8-year-old daughter awoke to screaming and witnessed her stepfather being beaten by two masked men.



"I'm scared for their safety," said Anthony Romero, the victim's son. "They just barely moved into the house. It's a nice house, nice area, nice people."

Anthony Romero said his family moved into the house near 1500 South and 1000 West two months ago. That has police wondering if the violent home invasion was a case of mistaken identity. Salt Lake City Police Detective Shawn Smart said, "There's a possibility that these people could have had the wrong house."

It was 4 o'clock in the morning. The family was asleep when two men dressed in black and wearing ski masks ripped the screen and broke through a basement window in the back of the house.



Romero, who was at another relative's home this morning, said the men went into his 10-year-old brother's room first. He said, "My little brother, they pointed a shotgun at him and said, ‘Where's your mom and dad?'"

Inside the master bedroom, the men yelled at Romero's mother and stepfather, demanding money and drugs.

The woman said the men wore what looked like police SWAT uniforms. She said they identified themselves as police officers and wore badges around their necks.

When the robbers didn't get what they wanted, the men put a pillowcase over her husband's head and beat him. "They just beat him up with a gun a couple of times, tried to choke him for some money. I don't know why," Romero said.

The men left with some cash and the victims' car keys. Police haven't been able to find them. Smart said, "Anybody that does this type of thing, they're dangerous."

The men wore masks, so police don't have a good description of the suspects. If you have any information, call Salt Lake City police at 799-3000.
So how are we supposed to know who's a LEO and who isn't when there is no warning and no warrant? If we shoot, we could be killed by the real LEOs. This is messed up.
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UtahCFP said:
There is a new phenomenon arising that is known as "swatting".
:shocked:

Dang, and I though joe jobs were bad news.
UtahCFP said:
There is a new phenomenon arising that is known as "swatting".
Actually not that new... I know I've read articles dated 2006 about it... and the article itself mentioned it happening in 2004.

A really popular one was about a blind kid... anyone read about that?
Anyone see this story??? http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5565853

The reason I bring it up isn't b/c they actually initiated a no-knock, but because they were GOING TO initiate a no-knock when they received information indicating the suspect had multiple weapons in his home -- upon receiving this information, law enforcement called off the no-knock (unfortunately the KSL story doesn't report these details; they were reported on Ch 13 news this morning). The story does mention that they ended up getting the suspect to leave his home by using some sort of smoke device.

OK, so this story demonstrates two things:
1) The oft-used excuse for no-knocks (i.e.: that it's safer for officers to storm into a house unannounced in case the occupants have weapons) is obviously just that: an excuse! In this case, anyways, police clearly decided that it was more dangerous to do so and opted for other (safer) methods.

2) The oft-derided/minimized non-lethal tools (i.e.: smoke, et al) DO in fact work -- as evidenced in this case.

On another vein, KSL did this guy too much justice with the photo they posted of him -- the video of him on the news clip was DISTURBING -- one of the freakiest, ugliest guys I have seen in quite a while! :ack:
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There was an incident like this in Maryland this past summer.
Deadly Force
If you can't access the link the highlights of the story are, A box of drugs is delivered to the home of the Mayor of a small Maryland town, addressed to his wife. Police had intercepted the package and set up a stake out on the property. The Mother-in-law sees masked men on the lawn and screams, then the swat team breaks through the door and shoots two black labs. One of the dogs was running away when it was shot. They cuff the mother-in-law and have her laying on the floor of the kitchen while the Mayor is upstairs changing for a city meeting. Upon hearing the shooting he yells that he is upstairs and he is made to walk down the stairs backwards until a police officer cuffs him. It turns out that the police knew that packages of drugs were being sent to random people and then picked up by someone else who knew the box contained the drugs. They still stormed the home of a city mayor and killed his dogs. I am not against LE, but it made me think about how I would react if my front door was broken down while I was home. Defending my home would a dangerous situation, being out gunned by LE.
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Utefan96 said:
... it made me think about how I would react if my front door was broken down while I was home. Defending my home would a dangerous situation, being out gunned by LE.
To be honest... I have decided that I consider any violent/strong-arm breach of the walls of my home to be assault by thugs, regardless of who it is coming in. If you are coming into my home in a violent manner armed with weapons pointed at me, I consider you a criminal. If you are LE or not, the fact is that in a situation like that you leave me no option BUT to defend myself and my own b/c you created a situation where I don't have an opportunity to ask "?"s and ascertain what is going on. Now, being SWAT, I may or may not have time to react and do anything about it -- but, if I do have time and enough wits about me, heaven help the first guy coming through.

For me at least, it's not a matter of the end result -- it's the fact that you created a situation in which my only 2 choices were to attempt to save the lives of my family members or to risk their lives and gamble that those coming in ARE in fact LE and WILL in fact treat us well enough to at least not kill or maim us. That's not a gamble I'm willing to make. I'd rather go down knowing that I did all I could. If LE doesn't like that response then we should move to have the legislature outlaw SWAT-style no-knocks.
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bane said:
To be honest... I have decided that I consider any violent/strong-arm breach of the walls of my home to be assault by thugs, regardless of who it is coming in.
:agree:
The bottom line is that if someone storms into your house yelling "POLICE!", you have no idea whether it's cops or bad guys.

Heck, it could even be both, as in the LAPD case a few years ago, where a bunch of police officers were robbing homes by busting in as though they were making a no-knock raid.
bane said:
To be honest... I have decided that I consider any violent/strong-arm breach of the walls of my home to be assault by thugs, regardless of who it is coming in.
I agree as well.

*Anyone* kicking down my door will be shot at.
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