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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On packing.org a poster said:
Doctor's kitchen knives call
<snip>
This thread is very relevant to CCW! In Utah a person with a ccw has the right to carry any weapon, this includes knives of any length including swords if we want. So of course I see the relevance. If knives are to be banned, so is a method of self defense that is very viable.
Now as our permit is called a Concealed "Firearms" permit, is this true? It's been a while since my class. Does this state the law accurately?

I know that with a permit we can open carry "Loaded", verses no permit must carry “unloaded”, so is there more to it for weapons choices?

Thanks
Randy
 

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Even though the name is "Concealed Firearm Permit", you have to look at the statutes. I suggest a little light reading :wink: here.

I'll attempt to clarify, but realize that I'm not a lawyer, etc. etc. etc. (see my disclaimer at the above link).

Take a look at this statute:

U.C.A. 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
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(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.
Notice that a CFP exepts you and me from 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), so check out that section:

U.C.A. 76-10-504 - Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2) and (3):
(a) a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, which is not a firearm on his person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in a place other than his residence, property, or business under his control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor; and
(b) a person without a valid concealed firearm permit who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a firearm and that contains no ammunition is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but if the firearm contains ammunition the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
Notice that it says "concealed dangerous weapon". To know what a concealed dangerous weapon is, check out the definition:

U.C.A. 76-10-501. Definitions.
As used in this part:
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(2) (a) "Concealed dangerous weapon" means a dangerous weapon that is covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence and is readily accessible for immediate use.
(b) A dangerous weapon shall not be considered a concealed dangerous weapon if it is a firearm which is unloaded and is securely encased.
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(5) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means any item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or any other item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
(i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
(ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
(iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
(iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.
Conclusion (my own): A valid CFP is really a concealed weapon permit, not just a concealed firearm permit.

BTW, I wouldn't want to have to defend myself with a knife. That's waaaaay too close for comfort.
 

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" I know that with a permit we can open carry "Loaded", verses no permit must carry “unloaded”, so is there more to it for weapons choices?"

I think your a little confused on this issue too. In Utah you have always been able to open carry a "Loaded" handgun without a permit. I have done it for many, many years. More often than not when law enforcement has been around the gun has just been a conversation starter or somtimes I've gotten slightly paniced looks from rookies who see the Desert Eagle straped to my hip, but never had any problems because of it.
 

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Better know the law regarding open carry.

Just because you haven't been hassled doesn't mean you might not get arrested and prosecuted for technically violating the law.

Check out the handy links to Utah Code that I provided above. Open carry of a "technically" loaded firearm on city streets and in cars is illegal without a CFP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Jeff Johnson said:
...Open carry of a "technically" loaded firearm on city streets and in cars is illegal without a CFP.
Right, This is the point I knew for sure. From BCI's page on Utah carry law:
"It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on any public street without a permit."

"Loaded" meaning that you can fire the weapon with only one action (I know this is simplified). Utah is really strange on this part since most other states figure "loaded" is having rounds in the magazine, in the weapon. Here, if you have a semiautomatic and don't have one in the tube, it is "Unloaded". I actually like our law. On a revolver this is kinda strange though... The cylinder under the trigger and next up must be empty... Like the one in my SP-101 couldn't fire the one under the tigger at all... so it leaves me only three rounds! (well, I DO have my permit, so...)

Thanks Jeff for pointing out the above statutes. I've read them before, but didn't get all the right meanings. More reading needed for me... :D
Randy
 
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