[ebrinton]

Yeah, I've never heard any announcement from the church regarding concealed carry. It looks like that is a requirement before they can post the church on the BCI website. Does someone know where or when the church has announced their gun ban? Was it in the Ensign? Church News? Read by each bishop at the pulpit?

Next issue: who is it in the church bureaucracy who is renewing this ban every year (I believe the church's ban expires every January)? Can we somehow raise a stink and get the church to not renew this ban? Has anyone every tried to get the church to reverse its position (written letters, talked to authorities, etc.)? Boyd K. Packer was in our ward the other day and I was thinking of talking to him about reversing the ban

Oh, and who is a building supervisor?

 

[ebrinton]

It looks as if the LDS Church hasn't complied with the law.

 

[ebrinton]

As far as I understand, one of the responsibilities of being a CFP holder is to know the laws regarding concealed carry. This includes knowing how, when and where we are able to legally carry, i.e. checking with BCI. I was instructed to get on their website and read up on the laws, and anyone, by doing so, would have seen that the LDS Church is listed as no carry allowed. If one were to be criminally charged, I don't see the judge giving any leniency.

However, one of the laws of regarding concealed carry is that the Church must make a public announcement every year before posting on the BCI site. The Church has not fulfilled all of the requirements and therefore they have no legal ground to stand on. Please, someone tell me if the Church has made any announcements this year regarding the banning of weapons.

 

[ebrinton]

Dave, are you a medical student? You were picking apart my reply like an attenting does to a student's SOAP note.

 

[ebrinton]

I think people are getting a little bit confused. Utah Code Section 76-10-530 is written very plainly. There are roughly two ways a church can go about prohibiting firearms.

First way: A church can prohibit firearms permanently if they post conspicuous signs at the meetinghouse, or if an authorized person (defined in (2)(a)i and (iii)) personally communicates it to you.

or

Second way: A church can notify the public by the means described in (2)(c), (d), or (e). Then they must notify the BCI within 30 days of the public announcement. The BCI will put the churches name on the BCI website. This way of prohibiting firearms is valid for only one year (see (4)(b)).

This is what I think has happened with the Church/BCI listing: Although the law says that the church must notify the public by the means described in (2)(c), (d), or (e) and then notify the BCI, the church has been simply notifying the BCI every year without the public notification (it only did a public notification once in 2004). I think that they have gotten away with it because the BCI's instructions for notification don't mention the public notification requirement. So basically what all this boils down to is that the BCI's church notification page allows a church to post its name on the web site without having made a proper public announcement. The BCI needs to fix its web site to conform with Utah Code Section 76-10-530.

While I'm at it, I just wanted to illucidate two falsehoods that have been mentioned on this thread previously.

1. Just having a church's name on the website does not constitute a public announcement--having the name there is meant to reflect the fact that the church has make a public announcement within the last year.

2. The church does have to renew their public announcement every year (see (4)(b)).

 

[ebrinton]

An infraction is less than a misdemeanor, correct?

What, exactly, is the punishment for an infraction of the law? Could your CFP be revoked?

Basically the difference is that for an infraction you can be fined, but not jailed. You can be jailed for a misdemeanor. So, if you were caught carrying at church and the church pressed charges, at the most all that could happen is you would get slapped with a fine. I don't know what would happen in regards to the concealed carry permit.

 

[ebrinton]

It's not against the Law to carry in a Church. It's a Trespass if anybody finds out. The Church in Question might have a Policy but that's a Policy and NOT law.

This is incorrect. The whole purpose of Utah Code Section 76-10-530 was to make this a state law, specifically an infraction in this case.