Basically the difference is that for an infraction you can be fined, but not jailed. You can be jailed for a misdemeanor. So, if you were caught carrying at church and the church pressed charges, at the most all that could happen is you would get slapped with a fine. I don't know what would happen in regards to the concealed carry permit.tapehoser said:
LDS Church attempting to interfere with Gun Rights
Let me start by saying that although I am not a member of the LDS Church I am extremely fond of the majority of their ideas. In saying this I must respectfully disagree with the Church trying to squash the bill currently in the Legislature that allows unlicensed carry in automobiles. The church claims that it is because they don't want guns on their property, specifically in SLC. As I see it they already have the law on their side to keep guns off their property since they are listed on the BCI website as prohibiting firearms. If the intent is to keep people from being able to drive past church property on a public street with a firearm in their vehicle I disagree. If one agrees with biblical teachings, the right to self defense is a God given right. Why the church would want to stop that I don't know. I am certainly interested in hearing your opinions on this.
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My answer to this is plausible deniability. Know your Pastor and if he hates guns, be Smart if you Carry. If you get caught cry for Mercy and seek Forgiveness through Repentance.ebrinton said:Basically the difference is that for an infraction you can be fined, but not jailed. You can be jailed for a misdemeanor. So, if you were caught carrying at church and the church pressed charges, at the most all that could happen is you would get slapped with a fine. I don't know what would happen in regards to the concealed carry permit.tapehoser said:An infraction is less than a misdemeanor, correct?
What, exactly, is the punishment for an infraction of the law? Could your CFP be revoked?
Remember that IANAL and this is not legal advice and if you chose to break the law you are on your own.
Concealed IS concealedmattsmith0622 said:Do you all think, as I do, that the church not allowing concealed carry in their meeting houses is a bigger issue in one area of the state as opposed to another? My wife is from Roosevelt, and I'll be joining her out there soon. I cannot imagine any church leader out there caring one bit if I am carrying, nor can I imagine any member making an issue of it. Not that I make it known that I'm armed, but even if I did I think it's a non-issue out there. I suspect it's a bigger deal in Salt Lake. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I've never seen anything posted regarding the church's position against concealed carry either.
I'm totally against such a prohibition, but I don't see it ever having an impact on me personally living out there in the basin.
It's not against the Law to carry in a Church. It's a Trespass if anybody finds out. The Church in Question might have a Policy but that's a Policy and NOT law.
Utah Code Section 76-10-530Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice ... Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, after notice has been given as provided in ...
le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C058.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
76-10-530. Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty.
(1) A person, including a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, after notice has been given as provided in Subsection (2) that firearms are prohibited, may not knowingly and intentionally:
(a) transport a firearm into:
(i) a house of worship; or
(ii) a private residence; or
(b) while in possession of a firearm, enter or remain in:
(i) a house of worship; or
(ii) a private residence.
(2) Notice that firearms are prohibited may be given by:
(a) personal communication to the actor by:
(i) the church or organization operating the house of worship;
(ii) the owner, lessee, or person with lawful right of possession of the private residence; or
(iii) a person with authority to act for the person or entity in Subsections (2)(a)(i) and (ii);
(b) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of persons entering the house of worship or private residence;
(c) announcement, by a person with authority to act for the church or organization operating the house of worship, in a regular congregational meeting in the house of worship;
(d) publication in a bulletin, newsletter, worship program, or similar document generally circulated or available to the members of the congregation regularly meeting in the house of worship; or
(e) publication in a newspaper of general circulation in the county in which the house of worship is located or the church or organization operating the house of worship has its principal office in this state.
(3) A church or organization operating a house of worship and giving notice that firearms are prohibited may:
(a) revoke the notice, with or without supersedure, by giving further notice in any manner provided in Subsection (2); and
(b) provide or allow exceptions to the prohibition as the church or organization considers advisable.
(4) (a) (i) Within 30 days of giving or revoking any notice pursuant to Subsection (2)(c), (d), or (e), a church or organization operating a house of worship shall notify the division on a form and in a manner as the division shall prescribe.
(ii) The division shall post on its website a list of the churches and organizations operating houses of worship who have given notice under Subsection (4)(a)(i).
(b) Any notice given pursuant to Subsection (2)(c), (d), or (e) shall remain in effect until revoked or for a period of one year from the date the notice was originally given, whichever occurs first.
(5) Nothing in this section permits an owner who has granted the lawful right of possession to a renter or lessee to restrict the renter or lessee from lawfully possessing a firearm in the residence.
(6) A violation of this section is an infraction.
This is incorrect. The whole purpose of Utah Code Section 76-10-530 was to make this a state law, specifically an infraction in this case.UTOC-45-44 said:It's not against the Law to carry in a Church. It's a Trespass if anybody finds out. The Church in Question might have a Policy but that's a Policy and NOT law.
Yes, that's exactly how I understand it. This law makes it a direct infraction (with no defined punishment) to carry in churches (well, in this case LDS churches), whereas it is not an infraction to carry in other private locations.ebrinton said:This is incorrect. The whole purpose of Utah Code Section 76-10-530 was to make this a state law, specifically an infraction in this case.
Concealed means Concealed.apollosmith said:Perhaps, but that does not make it any less illegal anywhere in the state. Unlike businesses that cannot do anything but ask you to leave if you disregard their no-guns policies, it is codified in law that LDS houses of worship are no-gun areas.mattsmith0622 said:Do you all think, as I do, that the church not allowing concealed carry in their meeting houses is a bigger issue in one area of the state as opposed to another?
I'm not happy with it either, especially considering the churches history in supporting gun rights and even forming its own armies and militias several times in the past. Still, they seem to be pretty set on keeping things this way. On a positive note, in Utah, we're pretty much free to carry ANYWHERE we want except LDS churches and secure areas and that's more than almost any other state.
( http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/4161-3.html )
During a discussion on Opencarry .org zoom6zoom wrote:
I've had people tell me that the Lord will protect us. To which I reply, "Fine, but I'll be carrying enough ammo to hold off the bad guys until he sends help."
Sounds about what I feel too
What a terrible thing to say. How irresponsible is it to be led as a blind sheep to the slaughter? Don't get me wrong, faith in the Lord's ability to protect his people is wonderful, but we must not forget James 2:26, "Faith without works is dead." I don't want to be dead. :shock:UTOC-45-44 said:I've had people tell me that the Lord will protect us.
LDS members adhere to modern day revelation that includes this statement from the Doctrine and Covenants: "but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear" (section 38, verse 30) and the Book of Mormon in which the author directly quotes the Lord: "Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed." (Alma 43:47).
Now, given the commandment to defend ourselves and our families, how should we prepare? I can tell you what it means to me, but I think you already know. :wink:
1000% in agreement :wink:GeneticsDave said:What a terrible thing to say. How irresponsible is it to be led as a blind sheep to the slaughter? Don't get me wrong, faith in the Lord's ability to protect his people is wonderful, but we must not forget James 2:26, "Faith without works is dead." I don't want to be dead. :shock:UTOC-45-44 said:I've had people tell me that the Lord will protect us.
LDS members adhere to modern day revelation that includes this statement from the Doctrine and Covenants: "but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear" (section 38, verse 30) and the Book of Mormon in which the author directly quotes the Lord: "Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed." (Alma 43:47).
Now, given the commandment to defend ourselves and our families, how should we prepare? I can tell you what it means to me, but I think you already know. :wink:
Carry On...
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