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LEO encounter. I was disarmed.

14508 Views 47 Replies 26 Participants Last post by  althor, 
Paul
Well yesterday I recieved my first ever speeding ticket. Yeah, I'm sure I deserved it after 16 years of speeding. I have been pulled over before but never cited. So here is the story in full including the disarming which I must say I felt completely comfortable with and felt the office did it correctly, professionally and safely. I must also say that past discussion on what to do in this instance helped me immensely so thanks ucc.com!

A group of us had just finished golfing (I won) and I was driving down from the golf course with 1 passenger in my car. I came down a hill and was speeding (I guess). I saw a cop (Smithfield City) pulled of the right side of the road. I had a car in front of me. When I saw the cop, I tapped my breaks, looked at my speedometer, felt I was fine and simply drove past the cop. He immediately turned his lights on, and pulled me over. I kept my hand on the wheel where he could see them and the following is exactly what happened.

cop: Do you know why I pulled you over?
me: No.
cop: Speeding. Do you know how fast you were going?
me: About 34.
cop: Actually you were going 37. Do you know what the speed limit is?
me: 30.
cop: Actually it is 25. I'm going to need to see your ID.
me: OK. I do need to tell you that I am a concealed firearm permit holder and I am carrying a gun.
cop: OK. Where is it?
me: (while obviously still keeping my hands on the wheel) On my left hip.
cop: Thanks. I'm going to need to have you step out of the car.

The cop took a few steps back and became more alert. He didn't reach for his gun or anything, he simply took a bit more of an alert stance. I got out of the car. I turned toward my car as I knew what he was going to do and I also knew what I wanted him to do. I knew he was going to remove the gun and I wanted it to be as safe as possible. I put my hands on the car and at the same time he asked me to put my hands on the back of my head and told me he was going to remove my gun. I kept my hands on the car cause thats where they already where and by this point he was already removing my gun as he said he was going to do. He first lifted my shirt on the right side (not sure if he didn't realize I had already told him my left hip, or if he was simply checking the right side prior to removing the gun.) He then lifted my shirt on the left side and removed the gun from my Crossbreed Supertuck. My shirt was untucked cause I had just finished golfing. He then took a few steps back and I turned around. I watched him remove the magazine and open the slide and empty the chamber. He locked the slide back. (I was carrying my XD45 compact). He then asked me if my passenger was carrying a gun. I told him no I didn't think so. I removed my drivers license and CFP while standing by the car and handed them to him. He then told me I could get back in my car. He kept the gun in his hand (safely) and then after I got back in my car, he handed me the magazine and loose cartridge.

He then asked for my registration and proof of insurance. I gave them to him and he walked back to his police car. About 5 minutes later he came back and told me he was going to write me a ticket for 9 over. He handed me my ID, and paperwork back and asked me to sign the ticket. We talked for a minute as he gave me instructions on how to pay the ticket, etc. I thanked him for only writing the ticket at 9 over. He then handed me my gun and told me I was free to go. He walked back to his car. I reloaded my gun and put it back in my holster then drove off.

Below is a link to a great thread that is really the one that got me thinking on what to do in this situation.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1336&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=what+to+do+when+pulled+over
This is the thread that really helped me. My last post in this thread was almost prophetic. After having the experience myself, I will saw I was completely comfortable with how the cop handled the situation and the way he disarmed me. I never felt insulted or unsafe in any way. He was courteous and professional and honestly didn't even act like it was that big of a deal.
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divegeek
Sounds like a very smooth encounter, with a very professional officer.

I've often wondered how it would go if the officer wanted to disarm me and I were carrying with my SmartCarry. I've kind of rehearsed a few different ways. My preferred is the one where I open the top button of my pants to expose the grip, then use one finger to hit the mag release and remove that, then put my right thumb on the grip safety and use my left thumb and forefinger to draw the slide back (with the gun still in the holster) to eject the chambered round. That way when the officer took the gun, it'd already be unloaded; no risk of AD.

In all likelihood, the officer wouldn't like me handling the gun that much, even if done slowly and with explanation and agreement before each step, so I just hope the officer would allow me to open the top of my pants, or pull the gun up enough to expose the grip. I'd really rather he didn't reach down the front of my pants. And he'd probably rather not, either.
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mchlwise
Great story.

Sounds like it was handled in the best way possible by all involved.

:thumbsup:
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Paul
Funny. I had never though about SmartCarry in that situation.

My passenger was not carrying. I wonder what the cop would have done if someone else in the car was also carrying.
The Wall (member on this forum) actually rode to the course with me and was carrying. I had his clubs in my car, but as we were leaving the course for some reason he decide to ride with the 4th member of our group. Only dumb luck he wasn't in the car with me.
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divegeek
mchlwise said:
Sounds like it was handled in the best way possible by all involved.
Click to expand...
Well, almost. The best POSSIBLE way is for the officer to say "Thanks for telling me, please just leave the gun right where it is, and keep your hands in view."

Well, either that or "Really? Cool... what do you carry? XD45 compact? I've heard a lot of good things about that gun, I own mostly Glocks, but I've been thinking about trying an XD. I saw some pictures of the new XD-M on the internet the other day, what an awesome-looking gun..." (ten minutes of pleasant gun chat pass) "Well, it was nice to meet you. Maybe I'll see you at the range sometime? Oh, and by the way, the speed limit here is 25 so keep it down, huh?"

;)
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GeneticsDave
Sounds like a good time :lol: I'm glad it went smoothly and professionally, that's how it should be. I don't think you need to be disarmed for a traffic stop like this (unless you are driving a stolen vehicle or have warrants out for your arrest), but I understand that LEOs want to be safe, I guess I just believe that they are safer not touching my gun :)

Glad it went well for you and congrats on being polite. :thumbsup:
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W
:agree: There was no need to remove the gun. The more a gun is handled the more there is chance of a negligent discharge. You are a CFP holder, you have passed the background check, it is much safer to leave the gun where it is. JMHO
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althor
swillden said:
mchlwise said:
Sounds like it was handled in the best way possible by all involved.
Click to expand...
Well, almost. The best POSSIBLE way is for the officer to say "Thanks for telling me, please just leave the gun right where it is, and keep your hands in view."
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I agree. For me, your experience falls into the category of a bad stop.
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Cowboy
The last time I received a speeding ticket was on Bangerter highway about 6 years ago,when I informed the officer I had my permit he asked me if I had my weapon with me,I replied yes and this is what he said. " If you don't pull yours out and start waving it around I won't either". he was pretty cool about it but I still got a ticket for 10 over.
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tapehoser
Cool story. But I prefer that the cop leave the gun in place, since I am generally (except for an occasional speeding ticket) a law-abiding citizen.

I've been pulled over 2 or 3 times while carrying and none of the cops even acknowledged the fact when I told them I was carrying. Weird?
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Paul
I also would very much prefer the cop left my gun where it was. However, he has the right to remove it and he did it very professionally. If I was an LEO I really don't know what I would do... I can see both sides of this issue, and feel it really comes down to the person.

Wonder if I could sue for being denied my right to self defense. Might be interesting.
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M
I've wondered about this and if you didn't want to have the officer disarm you what do you think would happen if you politely asked why or told him that you didn't want him to. And then obviously comply if he insists.
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mchlwise
tapehoser said:
Cool story. But I prefer that the cop leave the gun in place, since I am generally (except for an occasional speeding ticket) a law-abiding citizen.
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Obviously any of us would prefer in that situation to leave our gun where it is. The officer though, at the point he asked PW to step out of the car, had only PW's word that he was licensed to carry concealed. Asking him to pull out his ID to prove that allegation could be asking to get shot.

What we would PREFER is not, in my opinion, what is BEST, considering all involved.
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apollosmith
Excellent story and a generally good experience. I guess I'd best watch out for cops coming down from Birch Creek (drive there quite often). :D

I've also rehearsed what I'd do in this situation. If I am asked to hand over my gun while in the car (especially if anybody is with me), I will say, "I will comply, but I would prefer that we not handle my loaded firearm. If you still want to disarm me, may I please step out of the vehicle first?" Of course, I'll do whatever he/she demands, but I think it's fine to express your concern about handling the gun and that you'd rather do so outside the vehicle.

While I don't agree with officers disarming lawful citizens, I fully understand why they do so. Giving and receiving a ticket can be a frustrating and even infuriating experience. Some people have short fuses (though I'll bet dollars for donuts that CFP holder's fuses are longer than most) and may appear calm and collected, but suddenly freak out when they discover they are getting a $100+ ticket.

My brother is an LEO and handed a ticket to an apparently calm man when the guy yelled, "Well take this!!!", then reached to his right hip and yanked out something metal, pointed it toward my brother, and started getting out of the car as my brother backed away while drawing his weapon. My brother was VERY close to lighting him up. It ended up being the metal end of an old seat belt and the guy was apparently going to just fight him or something. The guy spent 10 minutes with his face on the asphalt, a knee in his back, and a taser against his neck until backup arrived - and then spent the night in jail, got a hefty fine, and a few more lines on the rap sheet. Anyways, just a long story to say that I understand why LEO's feel more comfortable with your gun in their hands to begin with.
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Paul
apollosmith said:
... If I am asked to hand over my gun while in the car (especially if anybody is with me), I will say, "I will comply, but I would prefer that we not handle my loaded firearm. If you still want to disarm me, may I please step out of the vehicle first?" Of course, I'll do whatever he/she demands, but I think it's fine to express your concern about handling the gun and that you'd rather do so outside the vehicle...
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:agree:

Excellent wording. Better than what I would have said. I really like the "If you still want to disarm me..."
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Shaolin
A nice encounter there, lol You handled it just fine. I also believe the LEO handled it fine, but have to definitely agree with other's that he should never had to disarm you. You are a CFP holder and can legally carry, letting him know that you were carrying should have been all he needed to know. Thanks for sharing. :shades:
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whiptrackercracker
I've yet to be disarmed in any encounters with officers, but I don't ever get pulled over other than checkpoints and stupid "bad excuses" terry stops. I drive like an old granny on a combat mission so I'm a 'at speed limit' driver but, the rear wheel lifts as I go around corners. I think if the officer has to disarm, which I am personally alright with because they have to put up with a bunch of crap in their job, then this story is a perfect example of right. If disarming me makes them more at ease, then so be it. I don't agree with it and praise those officers who are a bit more chilled with me and don't disarm. I remember and encounter one time where the officer wanted to talk for almost half an hour about guns. :lol2:

I've often wondered what will happen when and if I ever have to be disarmed while carrying the smart carry method. This method being my most often used holster. I don't think the officer will let me retrieve the gun. I've yet to hear that many disarms that go that way. I just hope I don't run into the 'office max officer' who decides to try to yank my gun out. There are some things in life one does not want to loose. Debt, weight, and junk I am alright with; having a gun go off in a smart carry makes me cringe. :ack:
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glock fan
I suspect that if a "Smart Carry" holster was involved a first response would be "What's that". If the officer knows, or once educated, I would think that the officer would then ask that the individual keep their hands on the wheel or in plain sight. Unless an arrest is being made, I don't see a need to have a guy in his skivies standing on the side of the road.

gf
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whiptrackercracker
HAHA....Yeah it is true that I've found many officers did not know what a smart carry was. I was at a big officer/survival expo one time when one of the officers talking about ccw said, "Obviously you are not armed". I started laughing out of reaction and clued him in on the holster. He said he always thought those were a stupid idea, but I converted him when his 'eagle eyes' missed my gun. I would hope that the officer would not want to deal with the holster and would not go for the gun, but I've been made wrong before. It would be an interesting sight for on going traffic as the officer went for it. Who knows...hope I never have to find out!!!
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divegeek
glock fan said:
Unless an arrest is being made, I don't see a need to have a guy in his skivies standing on the side of the road.
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:lol3:

That's quite an image. It wouldn't actually be necessary, of course. Just opening the pants an inch or two should be enough to show the gun's grip.

Anyway, I hope I never have to find out, but I do use the SmartCarry a lot. On the other hand, I haven't been pulled over in about 15 years, so maybe it just won't be an issue -- knock on wood.
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