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Man makes bad decision while protecting his sister
May 16, 2008

Randall Jeppesen reporting

A man looking out for his sister takes it way too far and lands in jail.

A 26-year-old woman was with her kids in a car yesterday afternoon, when she noticed a car with two men inside following her.

A little while later, she saw the same car drive past her apartment, so she got her brother, and they tried to follow the car. Orem Police Lt. Doug Edwards says, "I assume he was looking out for his sister, he thought."

The car stopped at 700 S. Main St. Police say that's when the woman's brother, 27-year-old Freddie Raymond Gutierrez, jumped out of the car with a handgun and started shooting. Officers found seven bullet casings from the handgun lying in the gutter of the road. Police say found no signs that Gutierrez hit anything.

Witnesses wrote down the license plate number of the car driven by Gutierrez and called police.

When Gutierrez and his sister returned home, police were waiting for them. After interviewing them, a 9mm handgun was found near the scene of the shooting.

"This turned out the best it possibly could have. No one was hurt, no one got hit by gunfire and the shooter is in jail," says Edwards.

Gutierrez is in jail on charges of attempted homicide. Police say he has a history of arrest in Utah County for assault and domestic violence.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3323020
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Well, a couple of good points in this story:
1-he missed

2- he doesn't appear to have a CFP

For those interested, the pistol he coveniently left at the scene appears to be a Hi-point.
 

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And he left (disposed of) the firearm near the scene because this was a shooting done in defense of someone? Um... I don't think so. Sounds to me like gang activity or retribution trying to be disguised as an innocent thing. If she had to stop to pick up her brother, why didn't they just call the police instead of pursuing the pursuers... something's fishy. :spam:
 

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GeneticsDave said:
And he left (disposed of) the firearm near the scene because this was a shooting done in defense of someone? Um... I don't think so. Sounds to me like gang activity or retribution trying to be disguised as an innocent thing. If she had to stop to pick up her brother, why didn't they just call the police instead of pursuing the pursuers... something's fishy. :spam:
It did say that she went home after being followed, and that they saw the car driving by and pursued.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was either gang related, or if it was someone they had run into before at some point.

"I stopped behind a car and jumped out and started shooting at it in self-defense." :shock: :lolbang:

:disgusted:
 

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Its easy to see how people who have only grown up around this stuff can become anti in thoughts and feelings. Stupid stuff like this happen too often. It makes the use of guns look evil and thats the sort of activity that is seen with them. Its unfortunate. I hope the shooter is judiciously processed well. Unfortunate, definately sounds like a GANG thing though.
 
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whiptrackercracker said:
Its easy to see how people who have only grown up around this stuff can become anti in thoughts and feelings. Stupid stuff like this happen too often. It makes the use of guns look evil and thats the sort of activity that is seen with them. Its unfortunate. I hope the shooter is judiciously processed well. Unfortunate, definately sounds like a GANG thing though.
I can't agree more. This is the thing that bothers me the most as a gun owner. Too many idiots with guns doing too many idiotic things, giving all gunowners a bad name. Unfortunately I don't feel that the general public makes much of a disctinction between these nut jobs and responsible gun owners. My fear is that we will be done in and our rights taken away due to the actions of the moronic minority because they make the most noise and are given the most media attention.
 

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He has a history of arrest for assault and domestic violence, therefore he was probably breaking the law just by having the gun. I think he'll end up with some well deserved jail time
 

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We all know what an idiot the kid was. What would you do, being a CFP holder and armed, if you happened to be in the immediate area of this gang dispute. Do you react with your gun towards this kid who just jumps out of his car and begins firing a gun? Do you take cover? He is or is being charged with attempted homicide, which is a felony. Can we as a CFP holder take action to defend us and those around us by drawing or even shooting our weapon at someone who is firing his weapon for no apparent purpose other than gang activity. He claims self defense for his sister, but we all know his real intent and purpose which is far from that. Pure curosity as I am new to the whole CFP situation.
 

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Can you? probably. Should you? probably not. Unless he is firing toward you and you feel like you or your family is a target I wouldn't try to save a gang members life from another gang member. The legal aspect would be pretty gray in this situation and I wouldn't want to pay a lawyer to try to get me out of any following charges.
 

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I don't think I'm going to get involved in somebody else's senseless acts of violence. Now if innocents are clearly being shot at or if me or my family are in danger, then it's on, but otherwise, I'll do my best to make a good witness. What if the 'gang banger' is really an undercover cop defending himself? What if you miss and kill a kid on the playground up the street? And if you do kill the perp, you can be guaranteed his momma's gunna sue you because "he was such a good boy."

It really is a lose-lose situation unless you are sure of what you're getting into and can be reasonably sure that it is going to end the way you want it to once all is said and done.
 

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ndavis2008 said:
We all know what an idiot the kid was. What would you do, being a CFP holder and armed, if you happened to be in the immediate area of this gang dispute. Do you react with your gun towards this kid who just jumps out of his car and begins firing a gun? Do you take cover?
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We are all inferring that the kid is an idiot or a punk, based on the reported story in the news.

We would not know any such thing if we happened by and saw this happening. It behooves us to be very careful when we interject ourselves into an ongoing situation, because if we don't know for sure who is really doing what, then we do not have grounds on which to make a sound judgment.

I will only draw if I reasonably conclude that I or those I'm with are a target. Otherwise I'll take cover and be a witness.
 

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+1 You can't call a bullet back. Reasonable assurance and judgment are the words of the day on this stuff. It has to be a beyond doubt feeling that your life or those around you, particularly family, is threatened. Elsewise, be the second half of our duty and be a good witness. Get the cavalry over, and wait. Personally I'd act only if the said rules were engaged in my mind. However, scenarios are only good thought exercises. It could be different when in the actual situation. Its just good to have your mind settled on what action to take before hand. It will help rectify a faster and maybe life saving decision. And life saving does not always mean shooting. Sometimes stepping out of the way deescalates the situation, possibly saving your life and those around you from serious problems. Its a decision to be made then and there upon the rules you've made for yourself and the rules set forth by government. :)
 

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Car Knocker said:
For those interested, the pistol he coveniently left at the scene appears to be a Hi-point.


Are you sure that is not a sledge hammer? :ack:
(I have nothing against Hi-Point's, they just look like they fell from the ugly tree.)
 
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