[Ruger Collector]

I was wondering about this microstamping nonsense... How is it supposed to work and how would the microscopic stamps be affected by steel cased ammo... especially the old Wolf style with laquer that would undoubtedly clog the detailed stamps quickly. Then there's the question of reloads... how would they stand up as evidence with dozens of different guns stamped on the case? What if somebody picked up brass at a range, sold the reloads and YOUR firearm becomes spurriously linked to a crime?

:?:

 

[Jeff Johnson]

All good questions with no good answers.
Microstamping is just another measure to make it that much harder and more expensive for a private citizen to legally obtain a gun for self-defense.

It's not about preventing or solving crime. It's about gun-grabbing by those who have no respect for the Bill of Rights.

The girlie-men in the California legislature keep trying idiotic schemes like this. :roll:

Where else have you heard about this?

 

[Ruger Collector]

Rhode Island has also introduced legislation..
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=2944

While stamping done by the firing pin is lass problematic for reloads, there are bills in PRofCa that would require it on the firing pin AND in the breech.

If this were ever mandated, and I acquired a gun so equiped, I think I would "break the gun in" with a few thousand rounds of Wolf ammo. Just to let the steel case friction work it's magic on the microstamp which is smaller than the diameter of a human hair. Rather than face the possible nightmare scenerio of a reloaded cartridge being used in a crime by a criminal using a gun that didn't imprint another microstamp on the cartridge.

And yes, the socialist legislators from Ca and Ma are already trying to slide this in on a National level.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3190412

:!:

 

[blackpuma]

Definately another incremental gun prohibition move.

I mean really... how this would be of any use if a person used a revolver to murder someone? This assumes that brass is flying around willy-nilly and isn't picked up. The police have to find brass as step one.

 

[GeneticsDave]

I liked one of the comments on the news page where this article was posted. The basic premise was about committing a crime. First of all, it would be super easy to file down the micro print (or fill it in). And secondly, someone could just go to a range, find a spent casing with an imprint, then go do their dirty work, pick up their casings and leave the case from the range as a clue for the police. In the last few hours I have come up with numerous ways around this crappy plan - I can only imagine what criminals could think of.

Not that I am a proponent of any of these types of regulations, but wouldn't it be a better idea to find a way to imprint the bullet? I mean, chances are someone isn't going to go dig that out of a wall or dead body - cases are so much easier to mess with.

Anyways, this law/bill sucks a$$, and should be shot down ASAP.

 

[Ruger Collector]

Marking the bullet makes much more sense. Especially with future technologies like Metal Storm http://www.metalstorm.com/

Even if we Citizens are only gramted permission to own non-programmable semi-auto only models.. Metalstorm is sweet, I've seen demonstrations of it on Futureweapons and Mail Call.

The lack of a casing to microstamp might give them another excuse to keep modern arms out of public reach. Forcing us to continue to use less environmentaly friendly traditional ammo.

 

[Car Knocker]

Gov. Schwarzenegger Signs Landmark Legislation to Solve Gun Crimes

For Immediate Release:
10-13-2007

Contact Communications:
(202) 898-0792

Sacramento, CA â€" Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law cutting-edge legislation that will provide police with an important new tool in solving gun crimes and apprehending armed criminals and gang members. AB 1471 passed both the Assembly last spring and the State Senate last month.

“We applaud Gov. Schwarzenegger for taking a bold step to solve gun murders in California. This ground-breaking law gives police officers a powerful tool to apprehend armed criminals and gang members before they strike again,” said Brady Campaign President Paul Helmke. “The Governor has set a new national standard for the rest of the country to follow.”

The Crime Gun Identification Act will require that all new models of semi-automatic handguns sold in the State of California starting in 2010 be equipped with technology to allow police to match bullet casings found at a crime scene to the handgun that fired the bullets. This technology, known as "microstamping," consists of engraving microscopic characters representing the make, model and serial number of a handgun onto its firing pin and other internal surfaces. These characters transfer onto the bullet shell casing when the handgun is fired. In instances of drive-by shootings, where the only evidence at the crime scene may be a casing from a fired bullet, law enforcement will be able to quickly obtain a critical lead.

Assemblyman Mike Feuer (D-42), a former Los Angeles City Councilmember who recognizes that law enforcement needs more tools to combat gang violence, was the author of the bill. It was supported by the California Police Chiefs Association, the Orange County Chiefs’ and Sheriff’s Association, the Peace Officers Research Association of California (PORAC), and the Los Angeles Police Protective League, in addition to 65 police chiefs and sheriffs throughout the state.

Kay Holmen, the President of the California Brady Campaign Chapters, said, "Nearly half of all crimes go unsolved in our state. Microstamping technology will provide our police officers with solid leads for finding armed criminals before they do more harm. This new law will allow our police to trace the crime gun---without the gun.”

http://bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=933

 

[bane]

Even *IF* micro-stamping worked solidly and even *IF* the bullet-stamping mentioned here worked solidly and even *IF* there were no ways to get around them (i.e. filing, etc.) as there clearly ARE... all of this makes one big bold assumption which obviously cannot be made:

That common criminals would, in the first place, LAWFULLY purchase a gun that has been LAWFULLY STAMPED AND REGISTERED TO THEM.

But we all know they steal them and otherwise obtain them illegally or via non-illegal methods that don't leave a paper trail with their names attached.

So the only crimes bills like this would solve are those committed by average citizens who are generally law-abiding but who kill out of "passion"... IMHO, most of those crimes don't need this type of tool in order to be solved.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

That makes the "Governator" a girlie-man in my book.
He's a RINO of the worst order.

This is not designed to solve or prevent crimes.
It's designed to make firearms prohibitively expensive for people to be able to own.

This is sickening. :evil:

 

[Car Knocker]

I could wish that handgun manufacturers would take the same stance that Ronnie Barrett did with CA but that would probably be a futile hope.

 

[iampacking]

This is a big disappointment.
Frankly, I have no idea what the criminal element goes for, but my guess is that most do not have new guns that would be affected by this. The market for older, non-stamping guns is now guaranteed and prices are rising.
Al
/proud to not live in CA

 

[Cinhil]

After watching the videos I find the following;

1. 3 rounds loaded under carriage--slower load time if reload needed. Wouldn't a quick break down, or break open system as in shotguns or some styles of pistols be quicker? Thinking about it, probably not however, to side load or top load may be quicker and better.
2. The explosion seems to be significant and may be "all that."
3. Is the stock really necessary? What would happen if no stock were used?

Now for a different weapon choice. I watched an episode on futuristic military weapons which had a bullet which could penetrate into a wall and then explode within a room flinging many projectiles throughout a room which could take out a bunker easily. I even believe it could be programmed
(yes, you had to manually program where you wanted the bullet to explode) to do the same in an open field? It has been over a year and a half since I saw this episode so I may be a little sketchy, my point is that perhaps we may have more at our disposal for use by our troops than this simple 3 shot grenade launcher.
I did enjoy the videos though, thanks for the link.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

After watching the videos I find the following;

1. 3 rounds loaded under carriage--slower load time if reload needed. Wouldn't a quick break down, or break open system as in shotguns or some styles of pistols be quicker? Thinking about it, probably not however, to side load or top load may be quicker and better.
2. The explosion seems to be significant and may be "all that."
3. Is the stock really necessary? What would happen if no stock were used?

Now for a different weapon choice. I watched an episode on futuristic military weapons which had a bullet which could penetrate into a wall and then explode within a room flinging many projectiles throughout a room which could take out a bunker easily. I even believe it could be programmed
(yes, you had to manually program where you wanted the bullet to explode) to do the same in an open field? It has been over a year and a half since I saw this episode so I may be a little sketchy, my point is that perhaps we may have more at our disposal for use by our troops than this simple 3 shot grenade launcher.
I did enjoy the videos though, thanks for the link.

A little off-topic, aren't we? My guess is that you thought you were responding to a different thread.

 

[Guest]

This is how microstamping works:
1 - People elect a legislature bereft of cognitive powers
2 - The legislature passes a law nobody can enforce
3 - Law-abiding citizens and corporations obey like humble sheep
4 - Whackos get their AK-47's from the black market
5 - Tons of people needlessly die
6 - The press raves about it and demands a repeat of step 2

 

[Paul]

You mean there are "whackos" in California.....

-PW

***No offense to any current UCC ex-Californicators was intended.***

:lol:

 

[Guest]

You mean there are "whackos" in California.....

Whackos in California? Never! They'd never elect an idiot governor who thinks parents should have nothing to do with their kids' education. There are never any police chiefs who would rather watch a woman get bludgeoned and raped to death than watch her shoot her assailants. Those things NEVER exist in California.

Ever.

Swear it.

Scout's honor.

Don't look it up.