[GeneticsDave]

Rights, Responsibilities, and Respect - guess which two are ignored in the Academy?

"Do not question my patriotism!" said the brave young "artist" Susan Crane.

Enjoy a walk on the US flags in the student center. The provost confronted outraged veterans who came to protest the display by saying- "It's just a piece of cloth."

Maine College Republicans took video of the veterans being asked to leave.

This happened at the University in Maine yesterday, a friend of mine was there to film it. These art students did a project where they laid American flags on the floor of the student center for people to walk on.

They brought the cops in to protect it, when some College GOP kids and vets came to try to pick them up off the ground. In the video, the university provost actually says "It's just a piece of cloth." to the VFW guy, and one of the faculty tells the VFW chief that they are 'actually protecting' his freedom of speech by doing this.

To voice your disgust with the University of Maine officials contact them here:

President Theo Kalikow: [email protected]
University Provost Allen "piece of cloth" Berger: [email protected] 207-778-7279

 

[T-Man]

:shocked: Obviously the artist, and those who defend her, never knew anyone who gave their life defending that "piece of cloth." My response is, Your face is just a piece of protein, how would you like if I stepped on it a few times?

 

[UtahCFP]

And the constitution of the United States is just a piece of paper, I suppose?

 

[69Roadrunner]

They ought to send her to some other country to live. She obviously has no love for the country that gives her the freedom she currently enjoys. Hmm, she'd probably look a lot better in a burka and veil.

 

[Rugerlover]

While I think it's unbearably distasteful, it's her right under the 1st amendment, just as gun ownership is our right under the 2nd. (It's also everyone else's right under the 1a, to voice their opinions on her "art" loud and clear.)

I hope when the project is done, it's pristine and clean, with nobody callous enough to walk on it.

 

[Mazellan]

I wonder if that school provost would like to have his face plastered to a urinal cake or have his picture walked on and steeped on. I bet that student wouldn't get approval to do that art project. So much for freedom of speech at that school!! uke:

 

[Mazellan]

There thats better!! :ROFL:

 

[ammosargeant]

do these dumb people realize what the flag represents and that soldiers and others are getting killed to protect it. i think they should be tried for treason.

 

[Outsider]

I didn't even have to read the article to become outraged. What is the difference between that and burning the flag? You don't do that with the American flag!!! I see nothing but bad coming of this...

I just did some research and found this:

USFlag.org

United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Section 176, Paragraph B -

"The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise."

Shame...

 

[whiptrackercracker]

Although, its perfectly legal to express art and speech and do what with the flag they want, I believe true americans should hold utmost respect for the flag. I get annoyed with this as much as flag boxer shorts and flags on the sides of cars. The flag must either fly in the air according to the rules or be folded properly. And what is with other country flags flying over her. If your in this country, you fly our flag first and foremost. Incidently, burning the flag is not always a bad thing. To dispose of a worn out flag, it is burned in a special dignified manner. Sorry to bring that point up, I just used to belong to a flag legion years ago, and burning the flag is sometimes misunderstood as a bad thing always. There is a procedure. Here are the basic rule of thumbs for anyone who does not know:

The flag should be lighted at all times, either by sunlight or by an appropriate light source.

The flag should be flown in fair weather, unless the flag is designed for inclement weather use.

The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.

The flag should not be used for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.

The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

The flag should never have any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind placed on it, or attached to it.

The flag should never be used for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.

The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.

The flag must fly above all other flags within the country. No flags of advertisement may fly on the same pole. Only government, state, pow/mia, or other patriotic flags may share the same pole.

 

[GeneticsDave]

:agree:
It is interesting to note that a local company, Colonial Flag, has a program whereby you can recycle usable parts of your old flag. I think they work in conjunction with the BSA. All you need to do is box up your old flag and take/send it to Colonial Flag. If they are closed, you may leave the box at the entrance.

I just thought this might be an option for those who don't want (or know how to properly) burn their flag or otherwise properly dispose of it.

 

[CaptainHowdy01]

I don’t understand why people just don’t get this; it is not
just a piece of cloth! The flag is a symbol, it is a symbol of all we hold sacred, it is a symbol of our nation. The “Stars and Strips” is not a symbol of our government every branch of government has their own flag from the office of president all the way down to individual cities. This is the same argument I have about people burning the flag.
When you desecrate the American flag you are dishonoring our core beliefs, everything we believe in, everything we hold near and dear. This is the symbol of what our fore fathers fled oppression, fought an invading army, and started a new nation for. It is a symbol of our rights, us as a people, it symbolizes the kind of freedoms and values that I (and many like me) was willing to fight and die for when I enlisted.
This flag is a symbol of us, it’s you and me and everyone we love and everything we care about.
To say the American flag is just a “piece of cloth” is like saying the Holy Bible is just a book!
If people want to protest against the government they should get hold of a government flag and stop desecrating everything our lives are built on and everything we hold sacred!

 

[Outsider]

I reposted this at XDTalk.com Maybe with enough letters to UMF we can get them to apologize (though I highly doubt it).

 

[69Roadrunner]

I wrote a note to the president of the university. Here's her response:

Thanks very much for your message. While I personally found the art project disgusting, since I would never disrespect the flag, our American First Amendment protections include the right to free speech and artistic expression, even speech that is repugnant and unpleasant and offensive. UMF, as a teaching and learning institution, has an obligation to foster debate and disagreement about difficult subjects -- this is an essential part of our democracy. Thanks for your expression of your point of view. And if you yourself are a Veteran, then my deepest thanks for your service and sacrifice. Sincerely, Theodora J. Kalikow, President.

 

[Outsider]

And yet she approved in the video, huh?

I submitted this story to every news agency I could this morning.

 

[bane]

Whip, great list! Especially the one about "lighting"... I cringe when I drive down the street during patriotic holidays and see everyone with their flags posted and they leave them posted overnight without any direct light source on the flag. Certainly they don't realize it, but it's a long-standing sign of respect to take the time to pull colors in at sunset.

However, with respect to the colors being "dipped":

The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.

I don't think this is 100% correct. While most of our at-sea salutes in the Navy were in the form of whistle-blows and all-hands standing at attention, I'm fairly certain that I recollect a few occasions where we dipped the Ensign to certain high-ranking ships passing-by.

 

[Crusader Smithy]

Just sent my message. Im so ticked off thats all I can say about it.

 

[whiptrackercracker]

That list is most certainly meant for civies first and foremost. I am fully aware of the navy tradition as with others in other branches. One of the perks of serving the country is you have proven your respect for the flag and country. As such, a few rules like dipping usually follow under individual branch rules and traditions. Such things are usually more appropriate within the service branches. I used to have copy of the traditions and flag respect rules that each branch follows, but I posted the traditional list just because we have idiots out there dipping the flag to get an extra cheeseburger at mcdonalds. There is actually protocol in navy code protocol for the ensign responding to salute of higher ranking ships, your absolutely correct on that. I just did not put it in because it tends to confuse people and bring up arguments. I think it was the 1908 olympics when the dipping rule really got its first tryout. It is traditional to dip every flag from every country to the olympic flag. But, the one with our flag would not do so. There has also been some controversy recently at the ANNAPOLIS Naval Academy chapel where the flag has been dipped to the cross traditionally at the protestant service for almost 40 years now. The official code still says no dipping to anyone or anything, but each military branch has its own rules. Personally as long is it is in full honor and respect to the country than its fine in my book.

 

[Guest]

The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.

These uses tick me off, I once bought a pair of work gloves with our flag on the background of the cardboard latter I read made in China :ack: foreign countries should not use our flag in advertising nor should we buy our flags from another country.

Our flag our symbol of pride "made in china" uke:

 

[divegeek]

I wrote a note to the president of the university. Here's her response:

Thanks very much for your message. While I personally found the art project disgusting, since I would never disrespect the flag, our American First Amendment protections include the right to free speech and artistic expression, even speech that is repugnant and unpleasant and offensive. UMF, as a teaching and learning institution, has an obligation to foster debate and disagreement about difficult subjects -- this is an essential part of our democracy. Thanks for your expression of your point of view. And if you yourself are a Veteran, then my deepest thanks for your service and sacrifice. Sincerely, Theodora J. Kalikow, President.

Mine will almost certainly be an unpopular opinion here, but I agree with Dr. Kalikow's position.

I'm a former soldier (I don't call myself a veteran because I was never in or even near any conflict), an Eagle Scout and a scoutmaster. I have great respect for the flag and what it represents -- and part of what it represents is the freedom to desecrate it. I think people who engage in flag desecration are stupid since they clearly fail to see the deep irony in their act. Regardless, it's their right to be stupid, and their right to be offensive. I'm sure plenty of people think I'm stupid and/or offensive when I OC, but that's also my right -- both to bear arms and to freely express my opinion by displaying my weapon publicly.

However, I would like to know if Dr. Kalikow would have a problem with a similarly "offensive" art project involving display of firearms, or one that denigrates welfare recipients, or one that praises slavery or the holocaust, etc. I'm sure there are lots of non-PC projects that she would quickly shut down, so while I agree with her stated opinion, I strongly suspect that she doesn't fully believe it herself.