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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My father in law sent me this. I can't vouch for its validity or that it may have made its way to Utah. Thought I'd be a mindless sheep and pass it along. (we need a sheep emoticon)

" BEWARE OF PAPER IN THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR VEHICLE NEW WAY TO DO CAR JACKING
(NOT A JOKE)

You walk across the parking lot, unlock your car and get inside. You start the engine and shift into Reverse.
When you look into the rearview mirror to back out of your parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck to the
Middle of the rear window. So, you shift into Park, unlock your doors, and jump out of your car to remove that paper
(or whatever it is) that is Obstructing your view. When you reach the back of your car, that is when the car jackers
Appear out of nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They practically mow you down as they speed off in your
Car. And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse is still in the car.
So now the car jacker has your car, your home address, your money, and your keys. Your home and your whole identity are Now Compromised!
BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT IS

NOW BEING USED.... If you see a piece of paper Stuck ! To your back window, just drive away. Remove the Paper later.

Thank you.
Lieutenant Tony Bartolome
Bureau of
Investigations

Florida Highway Patrol
P.O. Box 593527
Orlando , FL
32859
BEWARE OF PAPER IN THE BACK Window
OF YOUR CAR ! "
 

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The fact remains that there are all kinds of ways to carjack. It's unfortunate but you have to constantly be aware of your surroundings.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess it's still good practice to spend as little time as possible alone in a dark parking lot :D
 

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I think I would remove the paper first - cautiously, perhaps with one hand on my openly carried sidearm - let's see them buggers take two to the chest... :gun9:
 

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My rule of thumb is that if anything is out of the ordinary, I change my situation to be more in my favor before I worry about the strange thing. If there is something on the window, I'll use my sideviews to get out of there first. A dark lot or lonely place is a perfect choke point. I'll take it off once I'm in a different area under different conditions. No amount of training or armory is going to help you when surprise and numbers are on their side. I'd rather shift the weight a bit first. Again with the paranoia, but I would not want to take on anyone in a situation where they are hiding and in power to pounce. I have the surprise of a gun, but that may not be enough. If the paper is completely obstructing view and it is impossible to remove, then it depends on the situation. If its a dark criminalistic place, I'd rather look silly calling the cops for assistance. Worse case, instead of walking back I'd go forward and around or off to the side or whatever way different from straight back. Although this may run you straight into a waiting BG, its different from what they are expecting. It could buy an extra few seconds needed to defend.
 

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As my father taught me one must always be alert. Alert to your surroundings, alert to what is happening in the area, and alert enough to be actively engaged in your survival. This means that though we may not want to think like a criminal, we may need to in order to have an idea of the lengths with which criminals will go to in order to accomplish their objectives. This means we must always be thinking, observing and discovering ways to outwit the criminal elements of society
so that we may live safer for ourselves and our families. This does not mean we must be paranoid, just well prepared. Sometimes just being alert or acting with confidence may be enough to thwart the mischevious minded, other times it may mean being proactive and assertive. Whatever may be going on in the criminal world it is just as important to the lawful to be prepared and to have a semblance of an idea what criminals could do, or may do in order for us to be able to survive.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I taught myself that I have about a billion things I would rather be thinking about than how to outwit thieves. Yet for some reason I have yet to be successfully victimized despite several attempts. Perhaps I am by nature alert, or lucky, but I don't plan on changing; It's a quality of life thing. The time and money lost protecting oneself will generally be greater than the loss incurred should the worst happen; provided you are not an idiot.
 

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Eukatae said:
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The time and money lost protecting oneself will generally be greater than the loss incurred should the worst happen; provided you are not an idiot.
:dunno: Huh?

I don't know what you're trying to say here, but the worst that could happen is loss of life. I'd call that very costly. So is loss of limb or mobility. How about loss of peace of mind?

Training oneself to be alert and ready for self-defense, if done properly, brings greater quality of life not less. It builds confidence and peace of mind.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
Eukatae said:
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The time and money lost protecting oneself will generally be greater than the loss incurred should the worst happen; provided you are not an idiot.
:dunno: Huh?

I don't know what you're trying to say here, but the worst that could happen is loss of life. I'd call that very costly. So is loss of limb or mobility. How about loss of peace of mind?

Training oneself to be alert and ready for self-defense, if done properly, brings greater quality of life not less. It builds confidence and peace of mind.
:agree: +1 to what Jeff has said. I think that this is one of the reasons all of us have decided to get our CFP's--so that the worst, hopefully, may never happen to us or our families. I like the Boy Scout Motto of "Be Prepared." You may never need the skill, or the weapon (and thank God if you don't), but it sure is good to know you have what you need, or the skill to get throuogh something when necessary.
 

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Eukatae said:
It's a quality of life thing. The time and money lost protecting oneself will generally be greater than the loss incurred should the worst happen; provided you are not an idiot.
I agree with the basic premise that there is a line that you can cross where you are SO paranoid, and SO over-protective that it affects your quality of life to the extent that it is no longer a benefit.

For example: we can turn our homes into a fortress, walling off windows except for gun slits, and never coming out for fear of being attacked or otherwise the victim of a crime.

I don't think that the vast majority of people on this forum are anywhere near that line. i have incorporated my CCW into my normal clothing, and it is pretty much unnoticeable to me. I am more alert about my surroundings than I was a couple years ago, but as Jeff said, that's actually brought me more enjoyment of life, not less of it. Being observant lets you not only see the bad things, it also lets you see good things you might have missed otherwise. And, there's nothing quite like feeling like you are secure knowing what's around you, and that you can pretty much handle whatever situation arises.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
Eukatae said:
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The time and money lost protecting oneself will generally be greater than the loss incurred should the worst happen; provided you are not an idiot.
:dunno: Huh?

I don't know what you're trying to say here, but the worst that could happen is loss of life. I'd call that very costly. So is loss of limb or mobility. How about loss of peace of mind?

Training oneself to be alert and ready for self-defense, if done properly, brings greater quality of life not less. It builds confidence and peace of mind.
:agree:
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Jeff Johnson said:
Eukatae said:
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The time and money lost protecting oneself will generally be greater than the loss incurred should the worst happen; provided you are not an idiot.
:dunno: Huh?

I don't know what you're trying to say here, but the worst that could happen is loss of life. I'd call that very costly. So is loss of limb or mobility. How about loss of peace of mind?

Training oneself to be alert and ready for self-defense, if done properly, brings greater quality of life not less. It builds confidence and peace of mind.
One year spent in liberty is greater than a life time of the alternative. The odds of loosing my life are very slim; and don't justify my worry.
I reckon I am gifted with confidence and peace of mind for I perceive no lack of it.
 

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Eukatae said:
The odds of losing my life are very slim; and don't justify my worry.
I reckon I am gifted with confidence and peace of mind for I perceive no lack of it.
The odds of losing your life in a carjacking aren't slim. Lots of carjackings end in the serious injury or even death of the jackee.

If you stay out of bad areas, especially at night, and stay alert, your odds of being carjacked are fairly slim (though not none). But if you're actually jacked, the odds that you'll get hurt aren't slim.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
swillden said:
Eukatae said:
The odds of losing my life are very slim; and don't justify my worry.
I reckon I am gifted with confidence and peace of mind for I perceive no lack of it.
The odds of losing your life in a carjacking aren't slim. Lots of carjackings end in the serious injury or even death of the jackee.

If you stay out of bad areas, especially at night, and stay alert, your odds of being carjacked are fairly slim (though not none). But if you're actually jacked, the odds that you'll get hurt aren't slim.
Just not getting it are you?

Let me try to be a bit clearer. Of all the ways I could die car jacking has about a snowball's chance in ****; along with a mall shooting, home invasion, nasty spider bite, hypothermia, chronic anorexia, Ebola, the plague, terminal Hemorrhoids, etc. If I gave a **** about any of it I would be spending time out of my life trying to prevent things that are nearly imposable to prevent and highly unlikely to happen. We all have a risk threshold, I don't run out in traffic, I don't eat crap, I don't play Russian roulette; those things are very likely to kill me, avoiding them is cheap and easy so I do it. I avoid the likely and easy to avoid and ignore that which is unlikely and difficult to avoid thereby saving myself much time and money. I may die years earlier than others but I will take that risk.
 

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GeneticsDave said:
:agree:

Cinhil, where were you last Wednesday? Didn't see you at the meet... :cry:
Sorry Dave, I wanted to go but wasn't able. I was taking care of the wife after a day with the doctor. Hopefully I will be able to make the next meet. I would have enjoyed being there and associating with you'all.
 

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Yeah, we missed you. I think the next meet is supposed to be a BBQ, shoot and camp out. Not sure of the location exactly, but should be fun. Doubt I will be able to stay the night seeing as how it's Saturday night, but I am all for some good BBQ! :drool:
 

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Eukatae said:
swillden said:
Eukatae said:
The odds of losing my life are very slim; and don't justify my worry.
The odds of losing your life in a carjacking aren't slim. Lots of carjackings end in the serious injury or even death of the jackee.
Just not getting it are you?
I certainly understand the concepts of risk analysis, expected risk and risk vs. cost tradeoffs. Heck, I'm a mathematician by education and a security analyst by profession. Reasoning about expected risk (probability of risk times expected damage) and weighing it against countermeasure cost are what I spend a huge chunk of my time doing.

But I have to say that I am confused about your position.

If you want to make a pure cost/benefit analysis, then carrying a gun is arguably a complete waste of time and energy. For people who live in Utah, which has a very low crime rate, and don't engage in risky behaviors, the probability of ever having a use for a gun is tiny, and the percentage of cases where a gun is useful AND the only alternative to not having a gun is serious injury or death is even smaller. Honestly, driving to the store to buy a self-defense weapon puts you at more risk of being killed in a traffic accident than it reduces your risk of being killed because you don't have a gun (barring other risky choices).

Yet I assume, based on your presence here, that you carry a gun. No? If yes, why do you bother?

I can't reconcile that with your apparent decision to ignore an easily avoidable risk -- carjacking. All it takes to avoid being jacked is a little awareness and a few simple practices like locking your doors except when you actually need them open. The benefit is small, because the odds of being carjacked are small, but the cost is negligible and the same cost also protects you in various other situations.

It seems to me that you pick and choose what risks you evaluate rationally. So I guess you're right that I "just don't get it" -- I don't get inconsistent application of principles. Unless, of course, you actually DON'T carry, in which case you're both consistent and statistically correct, and just don't fit in well with the crowd here.
 
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