[iampacking]

Got this email from the University today--he gets it wrong about open carry issues, but, hey, I can't ask them to understand ALL of the law:

To: All Faculty, Staff and Students
From: Michael K. Young, President
Subject: Update on Firearms Policy

Dear Faculty, Staff and Students:

I am writing to update you on the status of our pursuit of a resolution
of the legal and political issues surrounding weapons on campus. After
a careful review of last week's Utah Supreme Court decision, and
following extensive discussions with members of the university
community, our Board of Trustees, and public officials, we have decided
on the following course of action.

Working with the Utah Attorney General's office, we are requesting a
stay in our federal action pending the outcome of discussions with state
leaders on a possible legislative accommodation to address our
commitment to maintain a safe environment for students, faculty, staff,
and patients. The University's policy prohibiting firearms on campus
applies to faculty, staff and students, but not to campus visitors. We
have agreed, with the Attorney General's office, to suspend temporarily
enforcement of our policy regarding firearms on campus and modify our
practices to comply with state law.

Given this decision, let me inform you of current provisions in state
law that continue to apply to the University related to the possession
and use of firearms:

1. Utah law prohibits weapons on school property, including college
campuses, except for firearms that are in the possession of a concealed
weapons permit holder. Other narrow exceptions apply, such as guns
carried by law enforcement officials.

2. In Utah, a person must be 21 years old to obtain a concealed weapons
permit.

3. Firearms held pursuant to a concealed weapons permit must remain
concealed -- unless the individual is using the firearm to prevent death
or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person, or to prevent a
forcible felony, according to Utah law. The Department of Public Safety
Bureau of Criminal Identification informs concealed weapons permit
holders, "If you pull a firearm on someone or even display the weapon,
then it must be in self defense or it is not justified."

4. University policy prohibits physical or verbal threats, harassment,
intimidation or other disruptive behavior in the workplace and academic
environment. [PPM 2-76 http://www.admin.utah.edu/ppmanual/2/2-76.htm]

5. It is a crime to draw or exhibit a firearm in an angry or threatening
manner, or to discharge a firearm within 600 feet of a house, dwelling,
or building.

6. It is a crime to carry a firearm while under the influence of alcohol
or a controlled substance, even if the person has a valid concealed
weapons permit.

7. Utah law prohibits concealed weapons in "secure areas," including
secure hearing rooms at universities. The University regularly holds
hearings in a secure hearing room where campus police provide security
and use a metal detector to ensure that no weapons are brought into the
hearing.

It is also important to remember that University police officers are
available to respond to any situation in which an individual feels
threatened on campus.

I realize that this issue is of great concern to many members of the
campus community and assure you that the administration is committed to
pursuing the most effective resolution of this issue to ensure the
safety and well-being of our faculty, staff, students, and patients.

Michael K. Young
President

 

[Jeff Johnson]

This is very good progress indeed. Congratulations!!

However, we ought to watch out for the implied threat here:

...pending the outcome of discussions with state
leaders on a possible legislative accommodation to address our
commitment to maintain a safe environment for students, faculty, staff,
and patients.
...

We must oppose any attempt to pass future legislation that would restrict the right to self-defense.

 

[Car Knocker]

We must oppose any attempt to pass future legislation that would restrict the right to self-defense.

Absolutely!!!!

 

[heavykevy]

3. Firearms held pursuant to a concealed weapons permit must remain
concealed -- unless the individual is using the firearm to prevent death
or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person, or to prevent a
forcible felony, according to Utah law. The Department of Public Safety
Bureau of Criminal Identification informs concealed weapons permit
holders, "If you pull a firearm on someone or even display the weapon,
then it must be in self defense or it is not justified."

This section of their new policy isn't in line with Utah law either. Nowhere in the law is their a requirement to keep your firearm concealed. Also, open Isreali (sp?) carry is legal in the State.

I too am also worried about his threat regarding the State Legislature and future changes. Since Clark has Legislature connections maybe he'll keep us in the loop.

 

[Mr. Magnum]

Yep, they know that their gun prohibition is doomed. Now they are going to try to cut deals. Be ready to call, e-mail & write to oppose any of the crap they're going to float across the table.

 

[robbeaudin]

I'm not sure he got it right about the secure area either. I don't think a University hearing room is considered a secure area by statute. Even if it is it would not be following the letter of the law unless they provided an area for storage of a CFP holders handgun.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Check out the following:

U.C.A. 53B-3-103. Power of board to adopt rules and enact regulations.
(1) The board may enact regulations governing the conduct of university and college students, faculty, and employees.
(2) (a) The board may:
(i) enact and authorize higher education institutions to enact traffic, parking, and related regulations governing all individuals on campuses and other facilities owned or controlled by the institutions or the board; and
(ii) authorize higher education institutions to establish no more than one secure area at each institution as a hearing room as prescribed in Section 76-8-311.1, but not otherwise restrict the lawful possession or carrying of firearms.
(b) In addition to the requirements and penalty prescribed in Subsections 76-8-311.1(3), (4), (5), and (6), the board shall make rules to ensure that:
(i) reasonable means such as mechanical, electronic, x-ray, or similar devices are used to detect firearms, ammunition, or dangerous weapons contained in the personal property of or on the person of any individual attempting to enter a secure area hearing room;
(ii) an individual required or requested to attend a hearing in a secure area hearing room is notified in writing of the requirements related to entering a secured area hearing room under this Subsection (2)(b) and Section 76-8-311.1;
(iii) the restriction of firearms, ammunition, or dangerous weapons in the secure area hearing room is in effect only during the time the secure area hearing room is in use for hearings and for a reasonable time before and after its use; and
(iv) reasonable space limitations are applied to the secure area hearing room as warranted by the number of individuals involved in a typical hearing.
(3) The board and institutions may enforce these rules and regulations in any reasonable manner, including the assessment of fees, fines, and forfeitures, the collection of which may be by withholding from moneys owed the violator, the imposition of probation, suspension, or expulsion from the institution, the revocation of privileges, the refusal to issue certificates, degrees, and diplomas, through judicial process or any reasonable combination of these alternatives.

Universities are allowed by statute to establish no more than one secure area. It's in the law.

Don't forget to check the actual statutes if you're not certain of your ground. If you like, you can refer to the handy firearm links thread. The above statute is one of those listed in that thread.

 

[Red_Dragon]

This section of their new policy isn't in line with Utah law either. Nowhere in the law is their a requirement to keep your firearm concealed. Also, open Isreali (sp?) carry is legal in the State.

That is not true. You have a permit for a "concealed" firearm. Here is the Utah Code:
76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.

(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle;
(b) on any public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

Just thought you should know.

Red Dragon

 

[tapehoser]

But the key to that statement is knowing what they mean by "LOADED".

Loaded, if you are toting a semi-auto pistol, means have one cartridge in the pipe, ready to fire.

Loaded, if you are toting a revolver, is having a cartridge directly underneath the hammer.

For those who do NOT posess a CFP, they must carry the weapon in such a way that it would take 2 actions to fire the handgun. Thus, if you are carrying a revolver, exposed, and do NOT have a CFP, you cannot have a round in the first or second chambers under the hammer.

For those carrying a semi-auto, the magazine can be loaded, but you cannot have a cartridge 'in the pipe'.

Clark, correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[Red_Dragon]

I'm rethinking my post after reading and analyzing that code. Like I just posted in another topic, From previously working at the Sheriff's Office, it was relayed/trained that Utah was NOT an open carry state. But it was never specific.

I don't know why I worry about it, I'll never open carry. It's better to not advertise your abilities to the bad guys.

 

[Car Knocker]

76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.

Amended by Chapter 328, 1990 General Session

 

[blackpuma]

Because it's not a single action to fire, I've always been told and understood that having a SA pistol's safety on counts as unloaded:

Action #1 = undo safety
Action #2 = pull trigger

 

[blackpuma]

... Utah was NOT an open carry state. But it was never specific. ...

Is there a specific statute that prohibts this? If not, then it's open carry.

Do I misunderstand correctly that there is nothing prohibiting open carry unloaded w/o a permit?

 

[tapehoser]

I think I understood your double....er...triple negative. I think.

It is LEGAL to carry a weapon OPENLY in Utah.

But then you gotta review the whole 'loaded' thing and that's different depending on whether you have a valid CFP or not.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

It is certainly my understanding that there is no requirement to conceal the firearm when carrying with a CFP.

If you want to search the Utah statutes, check this thread for a good start. Notice my disclaimer in that thread. I am not a lawyer.

You can open carry, and I have done so many times. If you have a CFP, you can legally carry loaded. If you don't have a CFP, then it must be legally unloaded. The definition of loaded has already been quoted in this thread.

 

[UTOC-45-44]

Got this email from the University today--he gets it wrong about open carry issues, but, hey, I can't ask them to understand ALL of the law:

To: All Faculty, Staff and Students
From: Michael K. Young, President
Subject: Update on Firearms Policy

Dear Faculty, Staff and Students:

I am writing to update you on the status of our pursuit of a resolution
of the legal and political issues surrounding weapons on campus. After
a careful review of last week's Utah Supreme Court decision, and
following extensive discussions with members of the university
community, our Board of Trustees, and public officials, we have decided
on the following course of action.

Working with the Utah Attorney General's office, we are requesting a
stay in our federal action pending the outcome of discussions with state
leaders on a possible legislative accommodation to address our
commitment to maintain a safe environment for students, faculty, staff,
and patients. The University's policy prohibiting firearms on campus
applies to faculty, staff and students, but not to campus visitors. We
have agreed, with the Attorney General's office, to suspend temporarily
enforcement of our policy regarding firearms on campus and modify our
practices to comply with state law.

Given this decision, let me inform you of current provisions in state
law that continue to apply to the University related to the possession
and use of firearms:

1. Utah law prohibits weapons on school property, including college
campuses, except for firearms that are in the possession of a concealed
weapons permit holder. Other narrow exceptions apply, such as guns
carried by law enforcement officials.

2. In Utah, a person must be 21 years old to obtain a concealed weapons
permit.

3. Firearms held pursuant to a concealed weapons permit must remain
concealed -- unless the individual is using the firearm to prevent death
or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person, or to prevent a
forcible felony, according to Utah law. The Department of Public Safety
Bureau of Criminal Identification informs concealed weapons permit
holders, "If you pull a firearm on someone or even display the weapon,
then it must be in self defense or it is not justified."

4. University policy prohibits physical or verbal threats, harassment,
intimidation or other disruptive behavior in the workplace and academic
environment. [PPM 2-76 http://www.admin.utah.edu/ppmanual/2/2-76.htm]

5. It is a crime to draw or exhibit a firearm in an angry or threatening
manner, or to discharge a firearm within 600 feet of a house, dwelling,
or building.

6. It is a crime to carry a firearm while under the influence of alcohol
or a controlled substance, even if the person has a valid concealed
weapons permit.

7. Utah law prohibits concealed weapons in "secure areas," including
secure hearing rooms at universities. The University regularly holds
hearings in a secure hearing room where campus police provide security
and use a metal detector to ensure that no weapons are brought into the
hearing.

It is also important to remember that University police officers are
available to respond to any situation in which an individual feels
threatened on campus.

I realize that this issue is of great concern to many members of the
campus community and assure you that the administration is committed to
pursuing the most effective resolution of this issue to ensure the
safety and well-being of our faculty, staff, students, and patients.

Michael K. Young
President

Good Letter eventhough it does NOT have complete info. Better than nothing I guess