Omaha and Trolley Square malls

2034 Views 10 Replies 10 Participants Last post by xmirage2kx, Dec 17, 2007

sirnado

Discussion Starter · Dec 8, 2007

I think the effects of having an armed citizen, (or off duty police officer) who can take action to defend their life and the lives of others around them has been demonstrated in these two mall shootings.

However I do have a question that I have been discussing with some friends and thought this would be the place to ask it. I looked around ucc.com and couldn't come up with an answer. I did find http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum ... .php?t=312, but nothing specific to this.

Given that both malls were "gun free zones" and I am not a LEO (Law Enforcement Officer), let's say I decided to spur the sign and carry onsite. If the shooter specifically at Trolley Square were to open fire and I was in a position where I could successfully take action to stop the shooter, i.e. shoot him, what could happen to me as a result of carrying and using a weapon? I know this is more theoretical than anything else and there is no legal precedent tht I am aware of, but what is your best guess as to what would happen?

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Paul

· #2 · Dec 8, 2007

You would be what I like to call a HERO.
Not sure what others would think, but I am of the opinion that the vast majority of the population would be supportive of your actions. I think the most important thing for you to remember are these words, "I felt my life was in danger." If you stuck to those simple words, you could easily defend yourself in any court of law and I couldn't imagine 12 people feeling you should be punished for protecting yourself and others. The law is pretty simple in saying you can use deadly force to protect yourself if you feel your life is in danger.

-PW

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Ruger Collector

· #3 · Dec 8, 2007

sirnado said:
what could happen to me as a result of carrying and using a weapon?

Using deadly force to stop a forcible felony is legal. Breaking the mall's rule isn't illegal, they could ask you to leave after dicovering you're armed (if you refuse to leave after being asked, then you're breaking the law).

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Shaolin

· #4 · Dec 8, 2007

PW said:
You would be what I like to call a HERO.
Not sure what others would think, but I am of the opinion that the vast majority of the population would be supportive of your actions. I think the most important thing for you to remember are these words, "I felt my life was in danger." If you stuck to those simple words, you could easily defend yourself in any court of law and I couldn't imagine 12 people feeling you should be punished for protecting yourself and others. The law is pretty simple in saying you can use deadly force to protect yourself if you feel your life is in danger.

-PW

I would also call you a hero. Also in my years of MAs, using the term "I feared for my life", also works.

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Jeff Johnson

· #5 · Dec 8, 2007

Ruger Collector is correct. Legally speaking, there is one significant difference between the Trolley Square in Utah and the mall in Nebraska.

In Utah, there is no statute that gives a no guns sign any force of law in a store open to the public. If you are asked to leave and you don't, then they might try to get you on a trespassing charge, but even that is not so straight-forward since the trespassing statute has a provision for a positive defense if you were not interfering with their course of business.

U.C.A. 76-6-206. Criminal trespass.
.
.
.
(4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and
(b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property.

In Nebraska, a no guns sign on a store does carry the weight of law, which is a significant difference.

IANAL

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apollosmith

· #6 · Dec 9, 2007

I've thought about this same question. I think it really depends on the situation. If the kid was about to open fire and you shot him first, the press would probably go to town on you for gunning down a young man in the prime of his life. If you were able to minimize the loss of life through your actions, I think it would take a pretty bold prosecutor to charge you with a crime.

Perhaps one of the best things that could come out of this shooting would be for the living victims and the families of the murdered to sue the pants off the state of Nebraska for denying them their right to defend themselves.

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xmirage2kx

· #7 · Dec 9, 2007

In Utah the worst that would happen (again IANAL) is you get charged with trespassing and banned from the mall. That in itself would be a very poor PR move for the mall to take, but potentially it could be an issue. You would be in much hotter water by shooting the BG (even though completely justified in the eyes of the law). By shooting the BG you would end up in court and possibly arrested pending an investigation before being able to go about your daily life.

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iampacking

· #8 · Dec 12, 2007

I will contribute to your defense fund.

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Hunter

· #9 · Dec 17, 2007

If you're able to worry about civil and/or criminal action taken against you, then you are alive and to me that's the most important thing. Although, one should always try to avoid breaking the law. I just had to through that disclaimer in there.

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Maladjusted

· #10 · Dec 17, 2007

I decided a long time ago that being able to defend myself trumps the whims of property owners and some other rules, including on occasion some with the weight of law.

I am aware of the consequences and I accept them as the possible result of my actions.

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xmirage2kx

· #11 · Dec 17, 2007

concealed is concealed

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