[elb1179]

A little off topic for UCC.com, but I don't know how many of you check opencarry.org so I hope this is ok in the Chit Chat area. Over there, I asked this:

Have any of you had any experiences (good or bad) open carrying in Utah county? The weather is getting much too warm for my fleece vest and I would much rather just open carry. I have my CPL, but am unsure about the LE attitudes towards it in the area. Anyone tried?

Any comments from here?

 

[Jeff Johnson]

I've read posts (at packing.org) by some people who say that they open carry all the time in Utah. I've rarely seen it. I'm not opposed to open-carry, but haven't done it much myself, except in my own yard. I'm not saying that my holstered pistol has always been covered, as I don't fret too much about stepping out of the car, then putting on a jacket without worrying about who might see it in that brief moment. I live and work in Utah County.

BTW, don't you mean CFP (Concealed Firearm Permit)? That's what we call it hereabouts. In various states, I believe that they're called CPLs. If I'm not mistaken, that means Concealed Pistol License. Maybe you're carrying on another state's CPL while in Utah County (which is perfectly fine).

 

[iampacking]

No experience with it here-I'm in SL county. I try to keep an eye open for guys doing it and have NEVER seen it. Only lived here about 5 yrs. I've seen plenty of guys I suspected are concealed--fanny packs, suspicious printing. I've often wondered if there is anybody truly carrying open around here. It seems much more common in Virginia from the packing.org site. I'll be interested to hear responses to this thread.
al

 

[W. Clark Aposhian]

I would suggest doing a search on this site for open carry experiences.
You don't see much open carry in the winter, but you can see it in the summer. I Open carry quite frequently in the summer heat. Never been questioned, COPs have never been called. etc. etc..
Exposure Increases Tolerance
Clark Aposhian

 

[Mr. Magnum]

I open carry off & on in Utah County in the spring & summer. I generally do it on days when we're going rockhounding or just going target shooting, so I guess that means I really do it quite a bit :lol: .

I've never had any problems either, but when I waked into the local gas station one day I ran into a group of sheriff & local police. They looked a little uneasy upon seeing a S&W 10mm on one hip & the Desert Eagle holstered cross-draw on the other hip, but I just smiled at all of them and continued getting drinks ect. without being bothered at all. :wink:

 

[Guest]

hey man I havnt lived in utah for over ten years but I used to open carry every chance I could wether in sl county utah county saint george wherever I had never been confronted for open carry of a fiream (and yes I have even carried while visiting ) I even carried open before I was 21 and nobody questioned sometimes id get a funny look but it was my right and I hope it still is in utah on the other hand I used to always carry a small hunting knife in the open and was only confronted once at a mall by the police who asked that I leave it at home next time but said there was nothin they could do about it so I never went to that mall without somethin again just becouse they couldnt do nuthin well point bein last I checked wasnt nuthin they could do later

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Let's not mislead anyone here. I don't want somebody to rely on this discussion without understanding the background, and wind up getting arrested and charged.

Please understand the quirky aspect to Utah law when it comes to open carry. Openly carrying a loaded gun in a car or on a public street is illegal in Utah unless you have a valid Concealed Firearm Permit.

The quirky part is the definition of loaded, which says:

76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.

So, if you don't have a CFP, then don't carry a loaded gun in public or in your car. Interestingly, an autoloader is not considered legally loaded if it doesn't have a round chambered, even if it has a charged magazine in it.

A revolver is not considered legally loaded if there is no round under the hammer and the next chamber to rotate in is also empty if it is a double-action revolver.

That's my understanding ... but IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

 

[Mr. Magnum]

Good point Jeff.

Before I got my permit I did keep the chamber empty when I'd open carry.
And as mentioned above, I was usually head to or from an activity which involved using the guns which gave even more justification for carying them.

Now that I have a permit I don't think about the empty chamber thing much, so thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Car Knocker]

Jeff, about your statement "A revolver is not considered legally loaded if there is no round under the hammer and the next chamber to rotate in is also empty if it is a double-action revolver. "

Why does the chamber under the hammer have to be empty? All the revolvers that I've seen rotate the cylinder when the hammer is cocked, therefor it would be impossible to fire a round under the hammer when the hammer is at rest. Seems like it would be sufficient to just have the next chamber empty so that one would have to work the mechanism twice to fire a round.

 

[rhinokrk]

Jeff, about your statement "A revolver is not considered legally loaded if there is no round under the hammer and the next chamber to rotate in is also empty if it is a double-action revolver. "

Simple typo, there needs to be two empty chambers in order to fire a round. So there would be a round under the hammer.

 

[Cinhil]

Last weekend, after a day at the range, I did not feel like removing my weapon, so I opened carried. I did this in Salt Lake(I have also done so on my mothers property in Utah County). The interesting thing was that I wwent to an all you can eat buffet with my brother in law and no one noticed. Or if they did, no one cared. There were plenty of kids there, and I heard no discouraging words, or any attempts by management to ask me to leave. My brother in law said a couple of people noticed but then went about their business. It felt natural & comfortable. I might try to continue this when not working ( as you know I work for the U of U and they continue to violate state law & defy the legislature regularly).
That said, overall I would say that experience was good, and I hope the future will be the same if I carry open.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Yes, I'm aware that cocking a revolver (whether by a double-action pull of the trigger or cocking it manually) rotates the cylinder.
I'm just reading the statute, and that's how it reads to me:

76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.

(emphasis added)

BTW, the statute does not mention the cocked or uncocked state of the hammer, so conceivably, you could be walking around with a cocked revolver and an unexpended round under the hammer, but the next chamber to rotate in is empty. Is that a legally loaded revolver? Certainly.

You'd be an utter fool to carry a revolver that way, of course. :shock:

The way I read it, this is a two-part test:

• If there is an unexpended round under the hammer, it is loaded.[/*]
• If the operation of any mechanism one time causes the gun to fire, it is loaded (e.g. a double action revolver with a round in the next chamber to rotate in).[/*]

Remember, I'm not a lawyer.

 

[UtahRSO]

"In the olden days" when the Colt single action was the handgun of choice, responsible users left the chamber under the hammer empty ("Five beans in the wheel"). If the hammer is fully down on the cartridge in the chamber, the firing pin is against the primer and you can fire it by just whacking the hammer with something.

Older single actions (again speaking of the Colt single action and all true clones) have a half-cock safety, but this can break if the gun is dropped or otherwise gets hit on the hammer. Again, the cartridge under the hammer will go off.

I'm pretty sure this is the reason the law is written that way. Some modern single actions (Ruger, for example) have a transfer bar that only lets the firing pin contact the primer if the trigger is fully back, but this is not the case on the older single actions and their clones. I'm not smart enough about old double actions (circa 1900) to know if they would have the problem, but I suspect there might be some.

 

[Car Knocker]

OK, it appears to be one of those things that just doesn't make sense, possibly written by someone who doesn't have a clue.

 

[Guest]

You are absolutly right jeff
as my Father who was a constable in SLC(who knew the law)
he always tought us how to carry legaly and yes as you said even back then none under the hammer and none in the first chamber as described in the law it means exactly that and about the not going off under the hammer I have been shown that yes "rhino + car knocker" it can go off I would not bet my life and stand in front of it if it fell or a branch slipped through your trigger and popped it off would you? SAFTY FIRST and that does not meen on the gun that meens on your mind (and I have heard of a recent fatality where some buddies were traveling in their car all with C H G's when they heard a loud bang and one of the guys in the back seat said I just shot myself they went to one of their homes dialed 911 and guy died before reaching the hospital and yes his safty was on :shock: )I only have 2 guns that have a safty device originaly installed
so I always gotta keep it in my mind to be safe like I teach my boys all guns are loaded until you personaly unload it at that moment most accidents that I know are all from unloaded guns!!!!!!!!!
anyways your right Jeff thanks for the update its good to know that its still legal there :wink:

 

[Utah_patriot]

Well was curious about what would happen if I open carried in Salt Lake City was very postive. First I went to plazza cycle where I brought my bike for service. Had a very good experience speaking with the service guys and sales guys about my Glock 21 while I waited for my bike to get done. I went to lunch at subway on 33rd and state were I bought a sandwidch and sat down to eat. After I ate I went over to the 1st pawn close by down the street walking from subway to the pawn shop spoke with the pawn shop folks for about 15min disscussing open carry in utah still very postive the owner evened showed me his golck and still was not convinced we were allowed to open carry in Utah but was okay with my firearm. Overall was very positive and would do it again .

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Yeah. My experience is that nobody has seemed to notice when I've open carried in Utah County. That surprised me when I did it the first few times.

 

[Sambolijah]

I've open carried a few times here in Provo. Macy's on a saturday a couple times, and nobody seemed to notice. The only time anybody has mentioned anything was at Blockbuster. The guy in line behind me says something like "whoa, i just noticed you had a gun."

We chatted for a minute while standing in line. He asked a couple honest questions about it, and seemed pleasant toward my responses.

I have my permit, and I might try open carry a little more come summer.

 

[Cinhil]

Sambolijah,

I am glad the incident at Blockbuster went well. Any time I can take to relieve fears of others concerning guns, or to explain the laws and reasons for carrying I do. Good Job!
:lol:

 

[scallywag46]

This is a little late by with regards to Texas Six Guns post. I was a little sceptical about my sig not having a manual safety. I now feel that it is one of the safest guns I've owned. Simply because I always know that it is always loaded and ready to go. I don't fiddle with it to see if the safety is on, or forget if it is loaded. When I clean it, there is no doubt that it needs to be unloaded first. Every time I draw it from the holster I know that it can deal destruction, so the barrel never points where it shouldn't and all my holsters cover the trigger.

Hey Hey... Be safe out there!

Scallywag