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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I am brand spanking new on this forum, and I shouldnt be ruffling feathers so early in the game, and this post is not to ruffle feathers, but I do have a question:

First, some background. I joined this forum because i wanted to learn about concealed carry and hear opinions from others. I looked at opencarry.org and other sites as I am also more interested in my rights afforded me by the constitution. Anyway, I have noticed on most if not all forums I have been on, there seems to be a common theme amongst OC'ers. Its an attitude of defiance and "I am better than you" mentalies. I do not disagree with OC'ers, I disagree with some of the reasons I have read. Again this does not apply to ALL OC'ers as I do have friends that OC, but I think it applies to a lot.

So to my question: Why do some feel it necessary to OC and TRY to get harassed by police, or to "alarm" citizens? I feel this "Mall Ninja" approach does more for hurting the 2nd amendment cause than anything else.

Thoughts? Comments?

Sorry if this seemed offensive... it was not meant that way, I am just trying to get response on why this may happen. Maybe I am the under/un/mis informed one, not everyone else.
 

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m&p40 said:
I know I am brand spanking new on this forum, and I shouldnt be ruffling feathers so early in the game, and this post is not to ruffle feathers, but I do have a question:

First, some background. I joined this forum because i wanted to learn about concealed carry and hear opinions from others. I looked at opencarry.org and other sites as I am also more interested in my rights afforded me by the constitution. Anyway, I have noticed on most if not all forums I have been on, there seems to be a common theme amongst OC'ers. Its an attitude of defiance and "I am better than you" mentalies. I do not disagree with OC'ers, I disagree with some of the reasons I have read. Again this does not apply to ALL OC'ers as I do have friends that OC, but I think it applies to a lot.

So to my question: Why do some feel it necessary to OC and TRY to get harassed by police, or to "alarm" citizens? I feel this "Mall Ninja" approach does more for hurting the 2nd amendment cause than anything else.

Thoughts? Comments?

Sorry if this seemed offensive... it was not meant that way, I am just trying to get response on why this may happen. Maybe I am the under/un/mis informed one, not everyone else.
My thoughts;

People who OC are of one of three groups;

1. The activist. They have a belief and want to make a difference. By OCing every where they go they force the establishment to deal with the issue.

2. "Mall Ninjas" The tough dude/Cop wannabe, who is all about himself and getting attention.

3. People Like Me. I believe strongly if our rights and feel that all, should have the opportunity to defend themselves and their families, and carry that means of protection as the see fit. I CC when the weather, circumstances of decorum and discretion require, and I OC when weather, circumstances of decorum, discretion and comfort require.

Tarzan
 

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I'm not sure I've heard many OC'ers actually going out of their way to get into an actual altercation or scare people. Sure, some hope to engage in an educational dialogue with those around them but I haven't rec'd the perception that their intent is to scare, intimidate, or harass.

I also don't know any OC'ers except the ones here -- maybe the ones that DON'T participate on these forums are less civil. :?
 

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This thread might be an educational one: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2670&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Here's my post from the bottom of page 2 of that thread, which pretty much addresses my feelings on the "OCMallNinja":

mchlwise said:
GeneticsDave said:
My personal opinion is that just going along with the flow in an attempt not to stir up the water only makes us fade into the background while our rights and support for those rights are slowly eroded. If you don't want to make a statement with your firearm, that's fine, just carry for protection alone; but realize that there are others out there who are getting the word out, most of which are being polite and kind while still refusing to hide their weapons or bend to the every wish of the anti-gun lobby.
I agree.

My wife and I were OCing last Friday (I posted a thread about it) and we actually had this discussion come up. She said something to the effect of "It seems like open carrying is a political statement more than anything." I had to think about it for a little bit to form my thoughts/feelings into a coherent statement. What I told her was basically this (which are my own personal feelings, and not meant to offend):

OC is something of a "movement." But it's more of a "counter-movement" than anything. For the past few years, there have been many "movements" by people to change society in ways which I don't think make it any better. For example: gay people can now get married legally in California. Political correctness has affected the words I can and can't use. Environmental protectionism has affected the things I buy and the decisions I can/can't make. I can't even spank my kid in public without fear of being accused of abusing him. For the most part, all of these changes and all of these things that have affected my life and limited my rights are coming from the same people.

These people are the same people who would outlaw and ban guns entirely. These people have already affected all of our lives in so many ways, with so many "movements", that some of us are willing to draw a line in the sand - and that line is the Second Amendment. We are willing to stand up and say: "STOP! Enough! You will NOT continue to change my society and take away my rights. I will exercise my rights publicly to ensure that I continue to have them."
:dunno:

I know some people (including some on this forum) are much more "in your face" than I am, and are much more willing to get into a confrontation, or be considered a "nut". I think some of the concerns about the more "militant" OCers are valid. Personally, I OC quietly, politely, simply going about my business with a gun on my hip, and I hope in some way it helps to preserve our rights.
 

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I agree with Tarzan, I OC doing my daily run-arounds about town. :D
 

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bane said:
I'm not sure I've heard many OC'ers actually going out of their way to get into an actual altercation or scare people.
That's just what the uninformed masses are afraid of (a phobia the prohibitionists exploit and exacerbate) when they assume the worst... any person armed with a brick or any other weapon, who behaves in such an uncivilized manner should be on a fast track to losing their CFP, or a few other things. :disgusted:
 

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Eukatae said:
How many threads on this subject do we need?
One per new member who's bothered by OC, apparently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks all for the posts. Again, I believe I have had some good opinions given to me and some that I had not considered.

swilden, I am not bothered by OC at all. I am bothered by the ones that try to ruin it for others.

Again thanks for the replies.
 

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I open carry almost all the time now that it is summer time. I do not open carry to intimadate others or to force my belief's on them. I open carry because it is a right afforded to me by founding fathers. I open carry almost all of the time. I am respectfull to everyone I come in contact with I help when I can and would do anything for anyone. Like someone carrying a knife on their hip I chose a firearm. I have had positive incidents and negitive incidents but the good out weighs the bad. I am a average citizen who chooses to open carry. I do not have a ego I do not allow others to dictate what I can or can't do. I served in the United States Military and am confident in my skills and ability's. I know when to walk away and I know when to step in on a situation that warrants my attention. I aknowledge I am not law enforcement but would be glad to assist if needed. Please consider when I open carry my firearm it is my choice to do so. If this make people uncomfortable I am sorry that my actions are causing you discomfort but I find out most of my experiences have been going outside of my comfort zone and brodening my horizions . Please contact me if you have any questions or want to go out for a night on the town open carrying it's always easier if their are two or more people your first time.
 

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I was open carrying this weekend with my wife and a friend of mine who, along with his wife, have their CFPs. I was quite surprised when at one point he points to my holstered gun and says "You're going to get in trouble with that thing." He went on to tell me that "it had to be concealed" and I assured him it didn't. He then said that I was going to scare somebody, and gestured to all the people around us, saying that they were all talking about it. I said that they all probably had noticed it, but not one of them had said anything to me about it.

I'm not sure why people who believe they have a right to carry, have their CFP, and actually DO carry feel shame and embarassment, at open carrying. :dunno: You would have thought by how my friend was acting that I was running around with my ***** out or something. :shock:

Later, a couple of ladies who were in their 60's at least and who were part of the group my friend gestured at as people who were "talking about" my gun said something about it near me. I said "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't want to scare anybody." One of the ladies said "NO! I think it's just GREAT." She asked me if I was in law enforcement or security, and I said I was not. She said "You're just a man with a gun. Well I think it's great! I would like to see more of it."

:thumbsup:
 

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I find it very interesting how many threads I have heard similar to Mchlwise's... it seems to be pretty common for younger generations to express shock/anger/etc about carrying (whether it be OC or CC) while the older generations seem to be the ones expressing support for it.
 

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bane said:
I find it very interesting how many threads I have heard similar to Mchlwise's... it seems to be pretty common for younger generations to express shock/anger/etc about carrying (whether it be OC or CC) while the older generations seem to be the ones expressing support for it.
Maybe it is the fact that we still remember, the days when there was less crime. Our parents and grandparents could leave the doors unlocked, we could go for walks with out fear. All the younger generation knows is how unsafe it is now. Not only that but they are being taught different in schools, that guns not people are the cause of crime. We where taught right from wrong, not only by our parents but also in school. We were also taught no one owed us a thing, if you wanted it you worked for it, no one was going the give it to you. How things have changed. Just my .02.
 

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Indeed. In the PoliSci class I'm taking right now there are 2 or 3 people who are basically calling me a hater of poor people b/c I think we should expect people to stand on their own 2 feet. Go figure. Interestingly, though, none of my classmates have questioned much my reason for being pro-gun (yes, the topic has been brought up) -- and none of them have expressed a horror at what might happen by my carrying. Not really sure what that means -- I almost expected to be attacked when the issue was brought up.
 

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One thing to remember is my generation (the baby boomers) are the ones that started all this new way of thinking. Feel sorry for them, fell sorry for this, give more money, ban this it causes evil. My moms family blew in with the dust into Cali, I was raised by her folks and we were farm labor. Had to work along with a lot of other Okies, Arkies and Texans. We lived the life you read about in the Grapes of Wraith, it was hard and no one gave us a thing. I guess that is a different way we were raised. Then the 60's came and it all changed, not for the better in my way of thinking. Oh well.
 

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swillden said:
Eukatae said:
How many threads on this subject do we need?
One per new member who's bothered by OC, apparently.
I'm a n00b to OC/CC, but I'm (quickly) coming around to the idea that, as part of my situational awareness, the vast majority of people that I see carrying openly can be regarded more as potential allies than threats, unless they are true mall ninjas, of course :ack: I recently spent two days in Mona with my wife at Lavender Days, and there was a guy there, I don't know if he was LEO or not (he had a badge, but was in civilian attire), but he was openly carrying and it unnerved me a bit at first, but then I just had to laugh at myself and get over it. I can't abrogate the rights of others just because the exercise of those rights makes me squirm a little.

In reading about OC/CC, investigating this forum and the information I have found here, I'm undergoing a transformation of sorts. It's funny, because I just changed the stock on my Marlin Model 60, and I showed it to my dad outside of his house, just pulled it out of my trunk and showed it to him before we left for Cabela's. I say transformation because I probably would have left it in the case and shown it to him inside his house before (maybe smarter due to theft concerns???) Anyways, my mom came out and was all freaked, like, why on earth would I just have a rifle out in the open, unloaded, with the action open and no bullets in sight? Maybe I was breaking some law (please let me know, y'all!), but I think I was breaking some stupid social rule instead. Guns are not something to be ashamed of, nor feared. Respected, yes, and of course used with proper education, but we shouldn't be ashamed of guns.

Speaking of open carry, I'm pretty familiar with OC/CC rules with handguns now, thanks to this awesome community (you guys and gals rock!). Are the rules any different for rifles and shotguns, or are the laws pretty generic in that regard? PM me if there's another thread I should read on this, don't want to :hijack:

--Geoff
 

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burninator said:
Are the rules any different for rifles and shotguns, or are the laws pretty generic in that regard?
The rules for carrying long guns and handguns are the same in Utah. Well, except that it's hard to hide a rifle in your pants ;)
 

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Good follow-up post!

Regarding your suggestion that you were merely breaking a social-rule... it occurred to me to point out that MOST things society decides to "shun" into it's deepest darkest corners only get picked up on by organized crime and curious youth and made into even larger problems. Sex, alcohol, guns, you name it -- if society "bans" it, curious teenagers will want to know about it and lacking anyone else to teach them the responsible way organized thugs will find a business "nitch".

OTOH, the more that responsible citizens can be seen using such things in responsible ways, the less teens there will be for the thugs to prey on.

Think about it... the sexual puritanism of the 1950's led to my mother not really understanding sex -- and subsequently being "taught" by my dad, resulting in a 16-year-old pregnancy (ok, no criminal thugs there though)... she vowed to not do the same with me and as of yet, no diseases or unwanted pregnancies.

The Prohibition of the 20's... we all know how that story ended. And many here would argue the War on Drugs is no different.

It seems most such "social rules" usually result in more harm than good -- so, I say, show your dad your gun in public -- so long as you are following all applicable laws and doing so responsibly!
 

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m&p40 said:
I know I am brand spanking new on this forum, and I shouldnt be ruffling feathers so early in the game, and this post is not to ruffle feathers, but I do have a question:

First, some background. I joined this forum because i wanted to learn about concealed carry and hear opinions from others. I looked at opencarry.org and other sites as I am also more interested in my rights afforded me by the constitution. Anyway, I have noticed on most if not all forums I have been on, there seems to be a common theme amongst OC'ers. Its an attitude of defiance and "I am better than you" mentalies. I do not disagree with OC'ers, I disagree with some of the reasons I have read. Again this does not apply to ALL OC'ers as I do have friends that OC, but I think it applies to a lot.

So to my question: Why do some feel it necessary to OC and TRY to get harassed by police, or to "alarm" citizens? I feel this "Mall Ninja" approach does more for hurting the 2nd amendment cause than anything else.

Thoughts? Comments?

Sorry if this seemed offensive... it was not meant that way, I am just trying to get response on why this may happen. Maybe I am the under/un/mis informed one, not everyone else.
:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:
I completely understand your concern. I recently started a thread about this same thing. I think many people have drifted away from carrying for self-defense and now carry just to show that they can.
 

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Dustin WJ said:
I think many people have drifted away from carrying for self-defense and now carry just to show that they can.
I don't think that's the case at all. OC'ers carry for self defense, they just have other reasons as well.
 
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