[Shaolin]

Was reading an article today in a Gun Mag. It mention that for a 3" barrel 9mm gun you should not use 147 grain bullets for PD (currently I have the Winchester Ranger SXT 147 grain). What he recommend were the 115 grain Cor-Bon DPX JHP. This was because of the 800 fps or so velocity range and the bullet not expanding. What are your opinions on this subject? Is he right? Will my current PD ammo not be as effective or do it's thing, if not shot from a longer barrel? Help?

 

[DBL Tap]

The article you read is correct with regard to the 147 gr load. The 147 gr JHP is better than FMJ's but it is not the best load for the 9mm. The 147 gr load was originally designed for use in suppressed sub-guns. The 115 gr +P+ and 124 gr +P loads are better choices for a handgun. There are several manufactures offering these loads. Choose a load that feeds reliably and shoots accurately in your weapon.

 

[Snurd]

:agree: There is a book called "Handgun Stopping Power" that has tons and tons of shootings on the streets, that studies a lot of different calibers and different bullets and loads for each one. For the 9mm the 115 grain bullet is definitely the most effective bullet for the pistol. Like DBL Tap said, try different manufacturers to see which works best with your gun, because there might be one that jams in your gun. My buddy has a gun that wouldn't accept a certain cartridge, and he thought it was a problem with his gun. I let him try some of the cartridges that I had, and it never jammed after that. So I shot his bullets, and he shot mine. Personally I like the Speer Gold Dot. I have tried expansion tests on a few different bullets, the Speer Gold Dot, the Federal Hydra Shock and the Hornady HP/XTP, and I really like the way the Gold Dot expands over those. Although I haven't tried every bullet. But make sure it feeds well in your pistol

 

[Shaolin]

Thanks for the great info. I will be buying a different round this weekend, and trying them out.

 

[Dustin WJ]

I've also been carrying 147 gr. bullets in my 9mm. Perhaps I'll switch to the 115 gr.

 

[Snurd]

Also going along with what DBL tap said, the 115 gr +p+ are the best loads out there. They create a bigger stretch cavity when entering which is more destructive than regular loads. The stretch cavity disrupts tissue inside the body, so the faster the bullet is going, the bigger the stretch cavity, the faster the person will go down. So the 115 +p+ is the best for the 9mm, and the 147 grain isn't so great, cuz it is going much slower, and creates a smaller cavity. Still wouldn't want to get hit with the 147, but the 115 is quite nasty. The funny thing is a lot of people think the 9mm is a very weak P.O.S., but in reality is a very good one shot stopping bullet. So go for the +p+, from the stats in "Handgun Stopping Power" they stop people with just ONE SHOT 88-89% of the time. Which is better than some of the bigger bullets. And of course, you also have a bunch more of them in your magazine if you ever needed them. So if anyone out there wants to see what kind of damage your bullets will do, check that book out, "Handgun Stopping Power, the definitive study". It's not about bigger bullets, it's about speed and stretch cavities. That's why the .357 Mag is the best stopper out there, it's small enough to get going really fast and do a lot of damage.
Also MAKE SURE YOUR GUN IS RATED FOR +P OR +P+ AMMO if you are going to use it.

 

[barl0w]

A neighbor turned me on to The Box of Truth site for real-world tests. Check it out - very comprehensive and has stuff that is funny and serious:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

barl0w

 

[Snurd]

That's a pretty cool website. Pretty interesting results. Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[aashooter]

Be careful on one shot stop data. If I fire a shot and the guy stops the attack, even though I miss him, does it count. Certainly doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of the cartridge other than a noise maker.

Are they counting peripheral hits? If I hit the guy in the hand, and he stops, does that count.

Make sure you understand the data and what it means.

This tends to be an religous discussion. You tend to be a fast, light bullet guy or a slower, heavy guy. Both have their benefits. Most shooters would be better off worrying about developing the skills to deliver fast shots with good placement under stress. First shots that hit critical areas have better one shot stop statistics than misses.

 

[Snurd]

Of course a bullet that hits someones hand isn't going to stop someone. If you know anything about guns then you know what the data means. Come on dude. It's bullets in center mass. of course nobody here is going to shoot one bullet and ask the guy if that stopped him, and if he says no then you say "Okay, let's try this again". Of course learning to shoot under stress and getting the best hits is what it's about. One shot stop results are very accurate. I'm sure everyone here is going to use more than one shot if someone is trying to kill them, if not totally unload their magazine to make sure the BG is down. We are all trying to go for center mass. It's like what the movie "The Patriot" says. "Aim small, miss small."

 

[Car Knocker]

One shot stop results are very accurate.

I haven't read the book nor have I read any reviews of it or its contents, so I have a few questions. Does the book only compile statistics regarding shootings involving one shot to COM? Would one fatal shot to CNS count? A single shot that severed the femoral artery? A double tap to COM? How soon does the person have to "stop" before it counts as a one shot stop?

 

[aashooter]

Of course a bullet that hits someones hand isn't going to stop someone. . .

Some of the statistics that I have seen evaluate one shot stops on any hit. Whether it is appropriate or not. So a peripheral hit is counted if the threat stops. I think we all agree that this situation really isn't a count of the cartridge's performance. Just be sure the data means what you think it does.

For example, stats on police shootings often report hit rates. They may or may not qualify the hits. Like any statistics, you need to understand the underlying data.

I guess we have to agree to disagree but there are plenty of folks that will stop their attacks when they are shot . . . even if it is only their hand. Lots of folks will stop their attack when they see a gun or hear one go off, even with no hit.

 

[aashooter]

One shot stop results are very accurate.

I haven't read the book nor have I read any reviews of it or its contents, so I have a few questions. Does the book only compile statistics regarding shootings involving one shot to COM? Would one fatal shot to CNS count? A single shot that severed the femoral artery? A double tap to COM? How soon does the person have to "stop" before it counts as a one shot stop?

Good questions . . . I have not read the book either.

 

[aashooter]

. . . There is a book called "Handgun Stopping Power" . . .

Does the book report at this url: http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm
refer to the book suggested above?

This paragraph summarizes the point I have been making:

" . . . statistics fail to address what anatomic structures are disrupted and damaged by the bullet. They also ignore the crucial fact that many adversaries are incapacitated due to psychological rather than physiological reasons: they decide to stop, but are not forced to stop. While the degree and rapidity of any physiological incapacitation produced by a given bullet is predictable based on what anatomic structures the bullet disrupts and the severity of the tissue damage, psychological incapacitation is an extremely erratic, highly variable, and completely unpredictable individual human response which is independent of any inherent characteristics of the bullet.. . ."