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I ran into some interesting information while browsing the UT BCI site. I don't know if this is commonly known or not... apologies if this is nothing new. Anyway, I found this document:

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/2008Q2.pdf

In it, the following is stated under "CONCEALED WEAPONS 2nd QUARTER 2008":

123,251 Total Valid Permits as of June 30,2008
11,702 Permits Issued 2nd Quarter
3,451 Permits Renewed 2nd Quarter
45 Permits Revoked 2nd Quarter
118 Permits Suspended 2nd Quarter
166 Applications Denied 2nd Quarter
If we believe Wikipedia (and the unwashed masses that edit it ;-}), UT has a population of 2,645,330. That means that about 4.66% of UT'ns have a CFP. That is higher than I would have expected, but lower than I would hope.

Anyway, I'd love to see this advertised on the news. I wonder how much effect the publicizing of such figures would have on violent crime.

One question, from the same document. It appears from the graphs that denials, revocations and suspensions all increased noticeably in 2007. Anyone have any idea why? Change of policy? Mass felonious behavior? Heroin in the water supply?
 

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Yeah, that's a nationwide number for UT permits. I'd estimate 20% or more could be out-of-state permits bringing your percentage down quite a bit.
 

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Probably more like 40-50%. Our permit is very popular across the US.

Also, you have to think that probably only about 25% of permit holders carry daily... kinda sad. :cry:
 

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GeneticsDave said:
Probably more like 40-50%. Our permit is very popular across the US.

Also, you have to think that probably only about 25% of permit holders carry daily... kinda sad. :cry:
Dave, you make me feel so guilty for not carrying daily! I would if I had a firearm...Believe me when I say I am throwing as much as I can into my slush fund!! I want my HK p30 NOW! :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So, y'all don't think that, say, 2-3% would be an unrealistic figure for the number of CFPs held within UT? My interest in the question is just to find out where the tipping point is. How much of the population has to be armed to impact crime? Of course, that might be irrelevant; after all, the prevention is partially psychological. It's not so much that, say, 3% of the population has a permit. Rather, it may be that the simple fact that the state issues them readily that is enough to cause a decrease in violent crime.
 

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Queen Kat said:
GeneticsDave said:
Probably more like 40-50%. Our permit is very popular across the US.

Also, you have to think that probably only about 25% of permit holders carry daily... kinda sad. :cry:
Dave, you make me feel so guilty for not carrying daily! I would if I had a firearm...Believe me when I say I am throwing as much as I can into my slush fund!! I want my HK p30 NOW! :crying:
I had never seen a p30 until I read this post and looked it up.
 

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treesloth said:
So, y'all don't think that, say, 2-3% would be an unrealistic figure for the number of CFPs held within UT?
I'd imagine non-resident permits are around 50% of those issued. Maybe more. But if you subtract the 30% or so of the population that is either incarcerated or under the age of 21, I think 3% might even be a bit conservative.
 

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xRapidDavex said:
Queen Kat said:
GeneticsDave said:
Probably more like 40-50%. Our permit is very popular across the US.

Also, you have to think that probably only about 25% of permit holders carry daily... kinda sad. :cry:
Dave, you make me feel so guilty for not carrying daily! I would if I had a firearm...Believe me when I say I am throwing as much as I can into my slush fund!! I want my HK p30 NOW! :crying:
I had never seen a p30 until I read this post and looked it up.
The p30 was released about the same time as the S&W M&P 9mm Compact. IThe guy at Doug's said just 6 months. They are both on my wish list! :drool:
 

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apollosmith said:
treesloth said:
So, y'all don't think that, say, 2-3% would be an unrealistic figure for the number of CFPs held within UT?
I'd imagine non-resident permits are around 50% of those issued. Maybe more. But if you subtract the 30% or so of the population that is either incarcerated or under the age of 21, I think 3% might even be a bit conservative.
Exactly. If you take out all the kids in Utah and simply look at adults, I came to the conclusion (my guess only) that about 1 out of 25 adults in Utah has a permit (4% of adult population). Now I don't think that most of them carry, but I bet 1 out of 4 with a permit carries fairly regularly. This leaves about 1% of the adult population in Utah that actively carries, or 1 out of 100. This may still be conservative.
 

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Around 50% of Utah's permits have been issued to residents, the other ~50% to non-Utah residents. Keep in mind that they are working on rule changes to stop issuing permits to non-UT residents because of the backlog of applications they have received.
 

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rosie said:
Around 50% of Utah's permits have been issued to residents, the other ~50% to non-Utah residents. Keep in mind that they are working on rule changes to stop issuing permits to non-UT residents because of the backlog of applications they have received.
Is it that they are stopping or increasing fees?
 

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powerplaynow said:
Just FYI, I learned the other day that there are around 6 million CCP holders in the U.S. That makes about 2% of the total population.
Holders or permits? I think a sizable fraction of permit holders have multiple permits.
 

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treesloth said:
How much of the population has to be armed to impact crime?
I think that an armed population would have to be visibly armed to have a noticeable impact on crime rates. People say that CCW is great, because the criminals don't know who is armed. Well, that may be true in a red state like Utah, but what about other states where arms possession is less common? Wouldn't a criminal just assume that most of the sheeple are unarmed?

treesloth said:
Of course, that might be irrelevant; after all, the prevention is partially psychological. It's not so much that, say, 3% of the population has a permit. Rather, it may be that the simple fact that the state issues them readily that is enough to cause a decrease in violent crime.
You got it right about the psychological factor. Utah is pretty vocal about the fact that we love our right to bear arms. If I were a criminal, I would much rather set up shop in Chicago, than Salt Lake City.
 
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We need to start a grassroots movement that promotes more CFP's out there. I would feel a heck of a lot safer if the concealed carry population was more like 1/3rd.

The way I see it, if we have the vast majority of people flood the BCI with requests and they all utlimately get their permits, the state will see requiring CFP's as a kind of redundancy and shift their focus to stiffer penalties of criminals and away from more red tape on decent people.

Ideas?
 

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I've thought about this also. But how do we go about it? We could do like they did in Texas and buy a billboard. Or maybe buy radio airtime or something. I think the get-togethers and publicity they bring is great. Many of us have UCC cards. We can all do individual things, but as a group there are also a lot of options.

One possibility is to add a CFP class calendar to the site and let the individual instructors put their trainings on there. It would make finding training easier. And maybe a "How to get your CFP?" sticky with the basic process and links. This forum is awesome, but I think there are things we could do to make it more useful and inviting especially to those that are considering whether to get a permit at all.
 

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Personally I think the AVERAGE joe isn't coming here to get their permit... they are most likely getting their permit and THEN finding the forum... so I think EXTERNAL solutions would work best.
 

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bane said:
Personally I think the AVERAGE joe isn't coming here to get their permit... they are most likely getting their permit and THEN finding the forum... so I think EXTERNAL solutions would work best.
I totally agree - at least for my experience. I had already decided on getting my permit and I consulted UCC as part of my education after the fact.

Funny thing is that I was turned on to the idea of obtaining a CFP from a school teacher friend of mine, whom I thought would have been the last person on the world to CC. Sorry to say that I had probably been influenced somewhat by the media as evidenced by my impressions. Anyway - it was his personal story that motivated me to follow his example. I think the most effective thing we can do is have conversations with friends and family and invite them to follow suit.
 

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Set a good example with the people you interact with every day and talk to them about it. This is a balancing act because you can't just start telling everyone you CC. There are times however that you can bring it up with friends and family in a responsible way and a lot of them will want to do the same as you have done. I got a CFP because I want to take personal responsibility and I think a lot of other people want to do the same. Most things grow best if you tell 5 people and they tell 5 people and so on. Just a thought.
 
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