Utah Guns Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pizza Hut has a policy that employees can't carry guns - even delivery drivers with carry permits. Not so unusual, but definitely a poor policy for people who routinely go into the unknown.

On March 27 a driver was lured to a delivery where he was ambushed at gunpoint. He was able to protect himself with his firearm and shot the attacker. Great story of survival and proper use of a concealed firearm.

In response to the heroic act of self-preservation by their employee, Pizza Hut suspended him from his job for violating the weapons policy. Annoying!

Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut, said, “We have a policy against carrying weapons. We prohibit employees from carrying guns because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

I love pizza but just won't give my money to a company that acts and publicly makes statements this stupid. It's as if they would have preferred for the driver to die than defend himself.

Anyway - I sent a comment in - I'm sure they wont' read it. I don't care. I like Pier 49 better and they deliver!

Read the NRA story at http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3777

I should also say that in my "I think you made a bad choice and I'm not ordering your food anymore" comment, I also said I wouldn't give money to any companies owned by YUM! Brands, Inc. (Pizza Hut's parent company) and I'm writing a letter to Yum! Brands Corp., and probably sister companies KFC, Taco Bell, A&W too. The A&W one is going to be hard because I love to go get a root beer. :shock:

Hey, when I get annoyed, I get really annoyed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,614 Posts
meandmyguns said:
The A&W one is going to be hard because I love to go get a root beer. :shock:
Say it isn’t so!!! That's my favorite root beer!!! :crying:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
Crap! I also like A&W, lol

"Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut, said, “We have a policy against carrying weapons. We prohibit employees from carrying guns because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

Sorry DUDE! Only safest for the BG.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,616 Posts
I've been boycotting Pizza Hut for some years now. This isn't the first time they've acted totally stupid in response to a delivery driver defending his own life, but this latest outrage is enough to boycott them. I submitted the following feedback at Pizza Hut - Contact Us:
I just read that James Spiers, a Pizza Hut deliveryman in Des Moines, was attacked when a criminal lured him into an apartment complex, then put a gun to his head. Mr. Spiers legally defended his own life by pulling his own gun, for which he had a valid permit to carry, and shot the assailant. The result? A thug is behind bars and Mr. Spiers is alive to continue to support his family. The fallout? Pizza Hut suspended Mr. Spiers, removing his ability to provide for his family. What!?!? I also read this quote, "We have a policy against carrying weapons. We prohibit employees from carrying guns because we believe that that is the safest for everybody." Again, I say what!?!?!? Safest for whom? Only safest for those who target pizza deliverymen. I've never heard of a more asinine policy or public statement, which was issued by Pizza Hut Vice President of Human Resources, Vonnie Walbert.
I applaud the courage of Mr. Spiers and hereby refuse to patronize Pizza Hut. Sincerely, Jeff Johnson
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,928 Posts
First Dominos and now Pizza Hut. Those are the only 2 that deliver to my house. WHAT WILL I DO NOW?!? :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
Dustin WJ said:
First Dominos and now Pizza Hut. Those are the only 2 that deliver to my house. WHAT WILL I DO NOW?!? :wink:
Papa John's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Shaolin said:
Crap! I also like A&W, lol

"Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut, said, “We have a policy against carrying weapons. We prohibit employees from carrying guns because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

Sorry DUDE! Only safest for the BG.
The owners of the Pizza Hut franchise business obviously are more concerned about the possible civil liability incurred if one of their employees has to shoot somebody or something in self defense while delivering their crappy pizzas than the health & safety of their drivers.

My advice to Pizza Hut drivers is to carry anyway if it's legal by Utah law to do so. If you are using your own car to make the deliveries I see no problem with legality. If you are using a company vehicle......then it might be different. A properly concealed handgun is out of sight and out of mind until you need it. Don't tell anyone (with the exception of a LEO, who you MUST tell).......even if they ask. Chances are you'll deliver for years without ever having to break concealment.

You need to be able to protect yourselves from people who want to rob you, aggressive pit bulls & rotties, etc.

If they catch you, you get fired. What's worth more? Your life or a $3.00 an hour McJob.

I'm NOT a lawyer...........so don't take this advice as gospel. It's ALWAYS up to permit holders to ensure that they are conducting themselves within the law at all times. "I read it on the Utah gun forum".....won't cut it with LEO's or judges.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,757 Posts
pricedo said:
My advice to Pizza Hut drivers is to carry anyway if it's legal by Utah law to do so. If you are using your own car to make the deliveries I see no problem with legality. If you are using a company vehicle......then it might be different.
I don't think ownership of the vehicle makes a difference. Driving an employer's vehicle means you're in their private property, but Utah law provides no special power to property owners to prohibit firearms, except for residences and churches, and a work vehicle is neither.

If the employer catches you carrying at work and policy forbids firearms then you can be fired, whether you're using your vehicle or their. You can lose your job but you're not breaking any laws. Assuming you have a CFP, of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
Similar to a thread on carry in the LDS churches, I don't think Pizza Hut is as concerned about weapons as it is about offending people. The reason they forbid their drivers from carrying is because 70 percent of the population would not order pizza if they knew an armed delivery guy was coming to the door. Too many people are against an armed populace -- that is the problem. It's a problem with our current population, not with Pizza Hut.

So Pizza Hut has a choice to make: either take a leadership role in favor of the 2A or make money. 99 percent of the businesses in the country would make the same decision as Pizza Hut. They are not interested in taking political stances. They are interested in making money and getting more customers. I'll be surprised if Papa Johns did anything differently. If we boycotted all products that had connections to people we disagreed politically with, we'd soon be hungry and naked, and we certainly wouldn't go to the movies. :)

While I don't know what discussions happened at the top levels of the company regarding this excellent display of self defense , I bet they are grateful the driver is OK and was able to protect himself. But publicly, they can't condone this across the board because a lot of people would boycott them because they were scared of the pizza boy with the gun. It would start a flurry of publicity from the liberal press they don't want. They'd rather offend us--a small minority--than offend a good part of their sheeple customers.

I am saddened by the state of things in our country. I wish it were acceptable to open carry a pistol or even an AR anywhere in the country. Think about the companies we'd have to boycott if we disagreed with their political stances: Disney, Kahr Arms (some at the top are in a different kind of religion), and many others.

I'm not saying we give a free pass to any company who does anything. I'm saying we have to understand the reality that companies are created to make money.

Let the flames begin... :ack:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
doconix said:
Similar to a thread on carry in the LDS churches, I don't think Pizza Hut is as concerned about weapons as it is about offending people. The reason they forbid their drivers from carrying is because 70 percent of the population would not order pizza if they knew an armed delivery guy was coming to the door. Too many people are against an armed populace -- that is the problem. It's a problem with our current population, not with Pizza Hut.

So Pizza Hut has a choice to make: either take a leadership role in favor of the 2A or make money. 99 percent of the businesses in the country would make the same decision as Pizza Hut. They are not interested in taking political stances. They are interested in making money and getting more customers. I'll be surprised if Papa Johns did anything differently. If we boycotted all products that had connections to people we disagreed politically with, we'd soon be hungry and naked, and we certainly wouldn't go to the movies. :)

While I don't know what discussions happened at the top levels of the company regarding this excellent display of self defense , I bet they are grateful the driver is OK and was able to protect himself. But publicly, they can't condone this across the board because a lot of people would boycott them because they were scared of the pizza boy with the gun. It would start a flurry of publicity from the liberal press they don't want. They'd rather offend us--a small minority--than offend a good part of their sheeple customers.

I am saddened by the state of things in our country. I wish it were acceptable to open carry a pistol or even an AR anywhere in the country. Think about the companies we'd have to boycott if we disagreed with their political stances: Disney, Kahr Arms (some at the top are in a different kind of religion), and many others.

I'm not saying we give a free pass to any company who does anything. I'm saying we have to understand the reality that companies are created to make money.

Let the flames begin... :ack:
What this poster is saying, and quite correctly, in a nutshell is that it's a matter of public PERCEPTION. If most businesses are given a choice between doing what's right & honorable and that of not offending a misinformed majority and thus making more money, the almighty dollar will win out about 99.99999% of the time.

A publicly stated prohibition forbidding their drivers to carry will also serve to shield Pizza Hut from expensive lawsuits if the injured party or their family sues........regardless of whether or not the shooting was justified.

The whole point of boycotting is not to give businesses that choice and letting them know via their business establishment's cash register that there is a large number of Second Amendment practicians & activists who will be offended by anti-gun stances on their part.

The reason they forbid their drivers from carrying is because 70 percent of the population would not order pizza if they knew an armed delivery guy was coming to the door.
As I said before, a properly concealed handgun is out of sight and out of mind until it is needed. Even if the above quote is accurate there is no reason that the 70% of the population the poster refers to, or anyone else for that matter, would ever need to know the PH driver was armed. Any driver or anyone CCWing who has loose lips or unnecessarily breaks concealment is creating their own hostile environment, not only for themselves, but also for the rest of us.

The whole paradigm of CONCEALED carry is to ALWAYS be equipped to protect ones self & loved ones and at the same time not alarm the general public.

Any business that prohibits CCW by their employees or patrons should be actively boycotted. The message has to be gotten out that Second Amendment rights are enshrined in United States law and anyone who forgets that will suffer economically. It might be inconvenient by we must do it. We just can't "roll with the punches". The draconian & severe gun laws in Canada are the cumulative result of decades of the " we can't do anything about it, so we might as well give up and roll with the punches" attitude on the part of a docile & complacent population.

Americans aren't by nature docile or complacent like most of the Canadian population is.........that's what I really like about Yanks !! The idea of meekly accepting what the antis and government bureaucrats dictate belongs north of the 49th. parallel. Do you want Utah or the United States to be a "politically correct" anti gun Liberal Utopia like Canada is?? It can turn that way very quickly if we stop fighting and start accepting the anti attitudes of businesses who need OUR money to survive.

We can't let the antis SHAME US INTO SILENCE & INACTION. Carrying a gun in a responsible & legal manner to protect oneself & loved ones & other innocent persons from criminal assault is an unwritten civic duty and something to be PROUD OF .......not ashamed of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I get that it's perception and that any company can write it into policy. I just think it's a stupid policy so I let them know!

Everytime I order a pizza I wonder if the guy is going to force his way into my home - it's just the way I think. But, a criminal will commit a crime and a law-abiding person won't - despite any policy. Based on the people I know - most of them don't give a seconds thought to personal safety and probably don't even think twice about the pizza guy, much less check into the pizza delivery companies policies on the matter of being armed.

What Pizza Hut has effectively done is publicize that their drivers are sitting targets, which I think is dumb and why I wrote to them.

I've also heard a lot of talk about the liability. Two problems with that in my mind: first, they have liability insurance already - what if a driver killed someone on the road through negligence or was drunk. Second, they're still liable if a driver kills or robs a customer whether or not a firearm was involved. I'm sure a determined slime ball could hurt or kill a customer with a his bare hands or stab the customer in the neck, eyeball, or other squishy parts with the pen used for signing the credit card receipt

They're within their rights to can the guy - no argument there. He made the right choice by ignoring the policy and now he needs to find a new job. However, I agree with previous posters that the policy is more for PR than safety but that results in unnecessary danger for employees which makes it a dumb policy to me. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
At least he/she is alive to find another job. :shades:
 
G

·
doconix said:
the reason they forbid their drivers from carrying is because 70 percent of the population would not order pizza if they knew an armed delivery guy was coming to the door.
I have a hard time swallowing this type of "logic' or explanation. I see the same argument about students carrying guns and professors would feel threatend that students have guns, blah, blah, blah. The key word in concealed carry is "concealed" meaning no one knows about it. It's not as if Pizza Hut could not change its policy w/o a state of the union address. They could do so w/o pomp and circumstance and most would not even notice or care. Afterwards, as in most locations where concealed carry is legal, it generally would not cross people's mind and more than likely would not deter them from buying or going where they want to go. Concealed carry is legal in Utah but do you really see people refusing to go shopping or to the movies or walk down a street because someone might be legally carrying? No. Most people go about their business and it does not even cross their mind.

I think when you use/believe arguments such as "70 percent of the population would not order pizza if they knew an armed delivery guy was coming to the door" you only give validation to those who think just because someone carries a gun, it must mean they are bound to flip out and start shooting the place up if things don't go their way. It also gives validation to those who compile such "statistics" that likely are in no way an accurate reflection of the mentality of the general populace. Nonsense.

Ok, thanks, I feel better now :ack:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
You may be right that 70 percent is not an accurate reflection of reality. I don't have data to support it -- I was just making a point that I do think man in our society are uncomfortable with guns. I am a university professor, and students having guns wouldn't bother me a bit. In fact it would make our universities safer. However, I know quite a few professors and administrators who feel very differently about the issue. And that is here in gun-friendly Utah.

The problem is the shooting forced Pizza Hut to make a public statement by either firing the guy or letting it go. They had to side one way or the other. If they came down on the "allowing guns for drivers" side, they would alienate more people than with the route they took.

The problem is not so much with Pizza Hut -- the problem is with our populace. People should be comfortable with an armed society -- not concealed carry where we appease their fears by keeping it hidden but open carry in a proper way. But that's not reality in our country right now. Pizza Hut is making decisions it thinks will make money. It has no interest in political statements.

The people in urban areas see only negative with guns. I spent two years in inner-city Chicago and saw a very different America than I grew up in. I could easily be wrong -- perhaps I am overstating the average American dislike for guns. I hope so.
 
G

·
I don’t disagree w/ you on that nor do I believe you are the one who creates these statistics.

As far as the "professor" argument is concerned, it seems to me maybe there is a lack of willingness to acknowledge that "feeling safe is not the same thing as being safe and there surely is an element of denial. Denial, in the sense that there is not the true realization that they probably have dealt with people who were legally carrying and never knew the difference. If people are carrying concealed, they would not know any better. Even more importantly, they have most assuredly dealt with more nefarious individuals who were carrying illegally and they never knew it and never felt threatened. You can regulate away those who carry legally and are not a threat but those who carry illegally, there is nothing they will be able to do to stop this. Truth of the matter is, a professor usually will never know exactly who they are dealing with, if they are carrying or not, if it is legal carry or not and what any individual is truly capable of. That said, It seems like any sense of security they may feel, is simply perceived security and not real security. Seems like professors collectively, not individually subscribe to the same foolish notion that anti gun advocates must believe to support so many of their arguments, that criminals abide by the law like the ordinary law abiding citizen. For a presumeably "educated" bunch, you would think they would have a better thought out position. Or at least it goes to show that secular education does not equal common sense.

Once again, this is not intended at anyone on this forum specifically, just thoughts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
sculptingmyguns said:
Seems like professors collectively, not individually subscribe to the same foolish notion...
I couldn't agree more. It bothers me to no end that academics--who are supposed to let data speak for themselves--choose to ignore the many published studies on firearms and instead make judgements based upon feelings. It is exactly what we are taught not to do.

Our modern educational system is incredible. Nothing like it has ever existed in the world before, and never have we had such an educated population. An educated public is one of the most important foundations of our free society. However, our system is obviously not without problems, as evidenced here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,616 Posts
The foolishness can go from the ridiculous to the sublime, so to speak.
I read (don't have a link right now) that a professor called the police at one of the Eastern universities to report that the empty holsters made her feel threatened.

That was on a day that students were wearing empty holsters on campus to protest the anti-self defense policies of the universities.

What, is the holster going to jump out and shoot her? How idiotic or brainwashed can she be?
 
G

·
Wow! thats a whole new, "special" level of paranoia and hysteria. Sometimes I wonder if that type is becoming the majority or they just make the most noise. I would hate to think that, that level of idiocy is commonplace.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
I would bet that that professor does NOT represent the majority.
I would also bet that that professor was not representing her own feeling HONESTLY. Instead I think it much more likely that she is so anti that she made a great exaggeration of her feelings just to make a big to-do out of nothing. I would be inclined to think that upon her first seeing the holster her heart jumped. Then she realized it was empty but thought she'd make that student "pay" since he was obviously a pro-gun guy.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top