Plain-Clothes LEO... ???

1946 Views 11 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Mazellan, May 3, 2008

bane

Discussion Starter · May 2, 2008

This seems to be the best forum for this... please correct me if there is a better one.

This morning I noticed something a little odd that I'm not used to seeing and thought I'd ask to see if someone here knows more... while pumping gas in the Taylorsville/West Valley area this morning I noticed a lady coming out of the convenience store OC'ing on her right hip. She had a LEO-LOOKING badge on her belt next to her piece (it was a star-shaped emblem, but other than that I couldn't make out anything else). She was a fair amount overweight, though otherwise well-presented but was in plain clothes. She proceeded to her, by all appearances, personal vehicle (no Govt plates, no stickers of any sort that I could see) and left.

I thought it odd b/c I am used to seeing either:
(a) Plain-clothes officers OC'ing WITHOUT the badge displayed (such as regular off-duty police)
(b) Plain-clothes officers OC'ing WITH the badge displayed but also in govt vehicles (such as investigators)

Hey, if she's off-duty LEO I don't care if she wears her badge as well... it probably prevents "scared" people reacting poorly to her. But I wondered if, since I haven't seen it before, there might be policy AGAINST doing so (since, it seems, she's off-duty???). I wondered if that's the case if maybe I didn't just run across a civilian OC'ing who has chosen to wear a "badge" such as has been discussed here before...

Has anyone else seen this combination before??? (Maybe I just haven't been paying attention???)

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Thomas

· #2 · May 2, 2008

I live in Roy up north. There is a 7-11 by my work that I used to stop at. About 8:00AM every morning right before shift change there are a ton of cops there. Most are wearing plain clothes OC'ing with a badge. They are in there personal vehicle on their way to the police station to come on duty. I think this is becoming more common because many dept's have a policy regarding leaving your gun in a vehicle.

Also, law enforcement in Utah are the only one's allowed to carry a star shaped badge. Security, Bail Agents, and PI's are prohibited. It could also could have been a BCI investigator with it being is West Valley.

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divegeek

· #3 · May 2, 2008

My CFP instructor (former Ogden policeman) was of the opinion that off-duty officers who OC'd (or even CC'd in a manner that might occasionally reveal their weapon) were required to keep their badge right next to their gun. He told a funny story about a cop that didn't have his badge next to his casually-concealed gun and got "made" in a grocery store. The store called the cops, who came in plainclothes, followed him out of the store and jumped him. Thinking he was being attacked, he fought back and the three pounded on each other for a bit before they discovered they were all cops.

Of course, this CFP instructor was also of the opinion that OC simply wasn't allowed, and he strongly recommended good concealment because, according to him, if someone sees your gun in the grocery store, they'll call the cops and even after they discover you're legal, the grocery store will ask you never to return. So, take his opinions with a pound of salt.

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bane

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 2, 2008

Huh... so I guess I haven't been paying attention to the changing winds... I was out of state for 6-1/2 years but still I've been back for 2 and this is the first time I've noticed... perhaps it's just b/c I recently started carrying and prior to that I wasn't taking notes... I distinctly recall as a teen in Driver's Ed our instructor (as was my wood-shop teacher in Jr. High) was some sort of LEO and taught the class with his firearm on his hip and NO badge displayed. Though I have no idea what their actual capacities in LE were.

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UtahCFP

· #5 · May 2, 2008

Could have been a private citizen with a "concealed carry badge" (see http://www.popguns.com/badge_cwp.htm for some examples).

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Mazellan

· #6 · May 2, 2008

Thomas said:
Also, law enforcement in Utah are the only one's allowed to carry a star shaped badge. Security, Bail Agents, and PI's are prohibited. It could also could have been a BCI investigator with it being is West Valley.

Care to site this? Just for my FYI. I have not heard or seen any laws regarding this.

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TMG

· #7 · May 2, 2008

It's actually very Rare to see a plain-clothes LEO OC'ing without a badge next to the gun,(or a badge slung from the neck.) Most agencies require that the officer have a visible badge when OC'ing.

As far as who she works for, unless you ask or see a distinct agency marking, it would be impossible to know. It would also be impossible to know, if you didn't ask her, if she was working plain clothes, going to training, off-duty, or if the car was or was not a government car. Some LE ' work' cars can be quite deceiving.

Also, law enforcement in Utah are the only one's allowed to carry a star shaped badge. Security, Bail Agents, and PI's are prohibited. It could also could have been a BCI investigator with it being is West Valley

I've heard this to. I'm not sure where it's written, but I believe there's a state requirement for private security companies when it comes to the type of identification they are allowed to use. If I'm not mistaken, I believe they are restricted to using 'Shields'.?

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Thomas

· #8 · May 2, 2008

Ask and ye shall receive... :crown:

R156-63-606. Operating Standards - Badges.
Badges may be worn under the following conditions:
(1) they do not carry the seal of the state of Utah nor have the words "State of
Utah";
(2) they shall contain the word "Security" and may contain the name of the
company; and
(3) the use of a star badge with any number of points on a uniform, in writing,
advertising, letterhead, or other written communication is prohibited.

http://www.dopl.utah.gov/laws/R156-63.pdf

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Mazellan

· #9 · May 2, 2008

Thomas said:
Ask and ye shall receive... :crown:

R156-63-606. Operating Standards - Badges.
Badges may be worn under the following conditions:
(1) they do not carry the seal of the state of Utah nor have the words "State of
Utah";
(2) they shall contain the word "Security" and may contain the name of the
company; and
(3) the use of a star badge with any number of points on a uniform, in writing,
advertising, letterhead, or other written communication is prohibited.

Click to expand...

http://www.dopl.utah.gov/laws/R156-63.pdf

Correct me if I am wrong but this law would only affect a private security not a CFP holder that decided to get a concealed weapon badge. Right?

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Thomas

· #10 · May 2, 2008

I would assume it would only apply to licensed professionals. Bail Agents, Security, P.I., etc. So I guess a private citizen could unless there is an UCA entry that prohibits it.

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Ruger Collector

· #11 · May 3, 2008

Mazellan said:
Thomas said:

Ask and ye shall receive... :crown:

R156-63-606. Operating Standards - Badges.
Badges may be worn under the following conditions:
(1) they do not carry the seal of the state of Utah nor have the words "State of
Utah";
(2) they shall contain the word "Security" and may contain the name of the
company; and
(3) the use of a star badge with any number of points on a uniform, in writing,
advertising, letterhead, or other written communication is prohibited.

Click to expand...

http://www.dopl.utah.gov/laws/R156-63.pdf

Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong but this law would only affect a private security not a CFP holder that decided to get a concealed weapon badge. Right?

Absolutely correct! There is no legal requirement for bail enforcement agents to have "Security" on their badge, nor are there prohibitions on placing the state seal on "CFP badges"... though I'd advise prudence lest we be burdened with a new case law...

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Mazellan

· #12 · May 3, 2008

Thomas said:
Ask and ye shall receive... :crown:

R156-63-606. Operating Standards - Badges.
Badges may be worn under the following conditions:
(1) they do not carry the seal of the state of Utah nor have the words "State of
Utah";
(2) they shall contain the word "Security" and may contain the name of the
company; and
(3) the use of a star badge with any number of points on a uniform, in writing,
advertising, letterhead, or other written communication is prohibited.

http://www.dopl.utah.gov/laws/R156-63.pdf

Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong but this law would only affect a private security not a CFP holder that decided to get a concealed weapon badge. Right?

Absolutely correct! There is no legal requirement for bail enforcement agents to have "Security" on their badge, nor are there prohibitions on placing the state seal on "CFP badges"... though I'd advise prudence lest we be burdened with a new case law...

I wasn't intending on getting one just clarifying. I am too close to being a leo that I don't want even a "potential" impersonating an officer charge. Wouldn't look good even if I was found not guilty.

arty:

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